Eating disorders are pernicious and powerful, with dangerous symptoms and sometimes lethal consequences. However, researchers and scientists are developing effective methods to treat them. Valerie and Helen share some of the most recent breakthroughs in eating disorders treatment. Though these disorders are damaging and destructive, a life in recovery with an eating disorder is possible, as we hear in Valerie and Helen’s insightful interview with Cailin. We don’t often hear about the long-term impact of these disorders on one person’s life. Cailin affords us the rare opportunity to do so by sharing her first-hand account of her life-long battle and subsequent triumph. Cailin shares the accessible, impactful strategies and skills she uses effectively during tough times and in on-going recovery. Cailin’s story of her fight and victory over eating disorders is empowering and invaluable.
Find Valerie and Helen at https://mentalhealthhopeandrecovery.com
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Overcoming My Eating Disorder: One Woman's Story
Episode 44
Helen Sneed: Welcome to our award winning podcast Mental Health, Hope and Recovery. I'm Helen Sneed.
Valerie Milburn: And I'm Valerie Milburn.
Helen Sneed: We both have fought and overcome severe chronic mental illnesses. Our podcast offers a unique approach to mental health conditions. We use practical skills and inspirational true stories of recovery. Our knowledge is up close and personal.
Valerie Milburn: Helen and I are your peers. We're not doctors, therapists or social workers. We're not professionals, but we are experts. We are experts in our own lived experience with multiple mental health diagnoses and symptoms. Please join us on our journey.
Helen Sneed: We live in recovery, so can you.
Valerie Milburn: This podcast does not provide medical advice. The information presented is not intended to be a substitute for or relied upon as medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. The podcast is for informational purposes only. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health providers with any health related questions you may have.
Helen Sneed: Welcome to episode 44, Overcoming My Eating Disorder One Woman's Story this is a special episode about one woman's fight and victory over an eating disorder. Now, we first examined eating disorders in episode 10 and hope you'll listen to it for much information on anorexia nervosa, bulimia, nervosa, binge eating disorder and other types of these life threatening illnesses. Today we'll hear an individual story of triumph and recovery after many years of struggle. Given my own ongoing battle with eating disorders, I'll be chiming in occasionally. Valerie, please introduce our guest.
Valerie Milburn: I would love to as I have known her since she was five years old. Joining us today is Kaylyn. She is a person in long term recovery from alcoholism and eating disorders, complex PTSD and anxiety and depression. Kaylin is a passionate advocate for recovery, body acceptance and fat liberation. She has a full and joyous life today that she shares with her husband, their 14 year old and 4 year.
Valerie Milburn: Old sons and three dogs.
Valerie Milburn: When she's not working in her marketing and communications career, Kaylin enjoys singing and playing music, shopping for vintage and antiques, and getting active outside.
Helen Sneed: First, let's look at a little background. Eating disorders, as everyone knows, are pernicious and powerful with dangerous symptoms and sometimes lethal consequences. However, researchers and scientists are developing effective methods to treat them. Here are some of the most recent breakthroughs in treatment of eating disorders. This is from the National Institute of Health. First, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and Dialectical Behavior Therapy. Now both of these methods have a lot of skill training that is proving to be quite effective with bulimia and binge eating disorder medication. Much progress is being made here. Antidepressants such as SSRIs are helping with the symptoms and behaviors of bulimia and binge eating disorder. Atypical antipsychotics have recently been found to have a beneficial impact on the symptoms of anorexia nervosa. Brain research identifying the neurocircuitry that may be responsible for disturbances in eating behavior has provided the field with new ideas about contributing factors to the development
Helen Sneed: and maintenance of eating disorders and possible treatments. Early intervention researchers are beginning to look at disorders much earlier in children and this can create a better chance for recovery with the individual and also an understanding of the origins of the illnesses. You know, where are they coming from, what's causing them? Now with adolescents, Family Behavior Therapy FBT has become very effective with this age group and people are looking at it more and more. Individual therapy which of course can be the bedrock of someone's treatment. Research shows that an emphasis on building self esteem can be very effective in dealing with eating disorders. Apparently low or no self esteem, it can be a real contributing factor. And finally, neuromodulation and neuroimagery such as rtms, transcranial magnetic stimulation are now being used to treat eating disorders. Now you should also know about the excellent support offered by the national alliance for Eating Disorders. They offer a clinician run helpline from 9am to 7pm Eastern Time. And if you are in crisis you can text Alliance. That's a L L I A N C e Alliance to 741741 for 24 hour free support. Again that is Alliance A L L I A N c e to 741741@.
Valerie Milburn: So now we're going to get to have our time with Kaylin and we're so excited to have Kaylin here today because we don't often hear about the long term impact of an eating disorder on one person's life and have the chance to ask questions. But we're going to be able to do that today because we do have Kaylin here to share her journey, her wisdom and her recovery. So Kaylin, we're so honored to have you here with us.
Helen Sneed: Welcome, Kaylin.
Kaylin: Thank you. I'm so honored to be here. Super excited.
Valerie Milburn: Well, we're going to just jump right in and I'm going to start at the beginning because we know that our early years shape us in so many ways. So can you please tell us about your early years and particularly incidents, factors that you feel contributed to developing an eating disorder?
Kaylin: I felt self conscious and a desire to fit in for as long as I can remember. In fact, I remember being in kindergarten and trying to stay stand like Valerie's daughter because she said this is how teenagers stand. And I thought both she and teenagers were so cool. Oh my gosh. I know, what a story, right? But like, that just illustrates how like,
Kaylin: self conscious I was and how conscious I was of other people's behaviors and trying to emulate those to fit in at such an early age. I also have some childhood sexual trauma and I was exposed to a lot of conversations and visuals about women's bodies that I shouldn't have been exposed to throughout childhood. So I guess you could say I've always been aware of the male gaze, if you will. And my mom struggled with an eating disorder when I was young, so I have lots of memories around her behaviors with food and memories of conversations about other women's bodies among the women in my family. So that kind of sets the stage. But then When I was 7, I was called fat by a group of 5th grade girls on the playground. And I was objectively a very average kid, you know, not that it matters, and I know that kids say all kinds of mean things all the time, but, you know, given what the stage that had already been set for me, it really stuck with me. And I believed that I was fat for the rest of my life. And then I eventually became objectively fat, but for many, many years I wasn't. And I still, you know, believed that about myself and believed that that was the, you know, absolute worst thing I could possibly be.
Helen Sneed: Those kind of situations, you know, like you say that one, that one incident, that one sentence calling you fat marks you for life for certain people. And that's what I think is horrible. Now, I have a question. When were you first diagnosed with an eating disorder? And. And also, did mental health challenges and illnesses ever prevent you from functioning out in the world? Did you ever reach that point?
Kaylin: Well, yeah, I mean, I can. I mean, I think I need to kind of give a little background about what my eating disorder looked like, if you're okay with that before I kind of jump into the diagnosis part. But I Mean, it kind of started in a way that was less typical when my parents marriage started breaking down when I was 8 or 9 and I started showing symptoms of OCD. And a lot of my rituals were related to food, food. So like eating certain foods in certain patterns or avoiding certain foods or eating them in a certain way to avoid getting sick. And I later learned that these are also eating disorder symptoms, just not kind of the classic symptoms that most of us think about. But I didn't start participating in those more classic behaviors until I went away to college and started my first diet. It was super restrictive, six days a week with like a planned cheat day or binge day, essentially once a week. And I started compulsively exercising then too. And so my behaviors kind of continued into my 20s and through my 20s and really looked like just about every type of eating disorder you can have over the years. I was living through an abusive relationship. And even though I didn't know it, but my eating disorder was in some ways saving my life because it gave me something to numb the pain and feel more in control and focus my thoughts on. So I was diagnosed when I was 25 or so. I had a therapist that sort of unofficially diagnosed me with disordered eating, but not an eating disorder. And when she did that, I started seeing a nutritionist, not a licensed dietitian with an eating disorder specialty. So that was my first mistake. But I also started going to some 12 step programs related to food, reading self help books. I even went to a Bible study about food and weight. And honestly, nothing helped. I was still drinking at the time with no concept that I had a problem with alcohol. So I didn't really have the ability to throw myself into my eating disorder recovery like I needed to. And eventually I got diagnosed with binge eating disorder, which got me in the door for more treatment. This was in the middle of a mental health and trauma crisis that I can talk about. But it wasn't until I was about 30 that I got any sort of true diagnosis or the level of help that I really needed. And one thing just before we move on that I think it's important for me to note that I didn't really have binge eating disorder. Not that there's any shame in that or anything, but I think this is a common sort of misconception. I was never thin, even at my lowest weight. My BMI would probably still be considered overweight even then because that's just not how my body is built. But because of that and because I did overeat from time to time I got that diagnosis. And what I've learned since then is that a more accurate diagnosis for me would have been
Kaylin: atypical anorexia or even bulimia non purge. It's just a shame I didn't get the right diagnosis or the right treatment early enough because I wasn't thin enough. And this really does happen to people all the time. I know countless fat people who are in recovery from anorexia who should have been helped years earlier.
Valerie Milburn: The diagnosis part is so interesting because sometimes the diagnosis is important and sometimes it's not, and leading to the right treatment is what matters. And so that's what I'd love to know about, is what treatment was the most beneficial. And can you share, you know, as part of that treatment? What about it worked? The tools, the methods, the skills, the types of therapy. So can we talk about treatment for a minute?
Kaylin: Absolutely. So I tried varying levels of care. Once I actually started getting true eating disorder treatment. Like I started at a partial hospitalization sort of day program here in my hometown, stepped down to iop. That didn't really work. The turning point for me was really when I went to a residential partial hospitalization program out of state. I needed to really get away from my now ex husband and other codependent relationships and give myself space to go all in on my recovery. DBT has helped a lot in developing coping skills and sort of surfing those emotion waves. Also, sensory regulation tools like weighted blankets were especially essential early on for me.
Valerie Milburn: Oh, really? First of all, I want to say DBT is dialectical behavioral therapy. And our listeners know it well because.
Helen Sneed: Names the praises of dj My life, that's all.
Valerie Milburn: Yeah, but the weighted blanket, that's so interesting. I've never really heard anybody talk about that as a, as a therapy, as a skills, you know, tool. I mean, safe.
Helen Sneed: Doesn't it.
Kaylin: It does, it does.
Helen Sneed: I mean, calming and safe and soothed.
Kaylin: Yeah, I remember there was one. This is so, like, funny to me now, but it wasn't in the moment. Obviously. There was one moment in one of my levels of care where I literally started having suicid thoughts over a cookie. That's oversimplifying my thought process quite a bit. But, you know, now this many years into recovery, I'm like, wow, that's so ridiculous. But it was so real to me, this sort of mental anguish over whether to have the cookie or not. And I was just, you know, out of my mind upset about it. And that was the first time I used a weighted blanket. And it immediately Calmed me down and helped me kind of get through to a place where I could access more skills. Skills to, you know, think about my emotions and my thought processes in a more logical way.
Valerie Milburn: That's a wonderful thing to share with our listeners because we've never talked about that before in all these episodes. So thank you for sharing that.
Kaylin: Holding ice was another one for me that, that really helped on a sensory level. But also tons of trauma therapy like EMDR and Yoga nidra. I rest Yoga Nidra for both trauma processing and just getting me back into my. And then I also think working with a licensed dietitian with an eating disorder specialty is absolutely essential. I needed a meal plan, ideas for food to prepare, support and accountability. I needed exposure to the things that scared me most, like grocery shopping and cooking meat and eating chicken at a small town Chinese restaurant. You know, that was terrifying to me. And having that around the clock support to learn how to do all of those things while also starting to address the trauma that contributed to my eating disorder in the first place was essential. I also really needed to understand my disorder and how starvation can affect the brain and body. So education was big for me. Like, in one of my treatment centers, they taught us about the Minnesota Starvation Study, which showed all kinds of crazy results that come from even partial malnourishment, like obsession with cooking or baking, increased body awareness and body dysmorphia, obsession with getting thinner, fears of certain foods. I mean, it was like a light bulb went off. And I understood that so many of the things that went on in my brain that made me feel like a caged animal could actually be helped by just eating and eating what sounded good and eating when I was hungry and letting go of the concepts of good and bad foods and, you know, trusting that my body would eventually get sick of things and,
Kaylin: you know, crave a vegetable or something. And once I experienced that a few times, I was better able to trust my body moving forward and give it the fuel that it needs.
Helen Sneed: Well, I wanted to ask you about that because this was just, well, I guess just hugely critical in my own recovery. And you talked, you've mentioned it, but how has your relationship with your body changed and evolved over the years?
Kaylin: My relationship with my body has gotten so much better. Even though, like, objectively I'm fatter than I've ever been. I have a sense of acceptance of my body now that I never had before. I have an appreciation for the things that my body has brought me through. And I believe wholeheartedly that my worth is not Tied to my body. And I'm more than my body. And I don't believe that fat is a bad thing to be or have anymore. It just is. It's neutral. It's like being tall or short or having brown eyes, you know, that being said, being in a fat body in this culture is not easy. And in fact, it's incredibly difficult. Some days it feels like a big cosmic joke to me that like me, the like social, courageous, active, gregarious, like overachiever, recovering anorexic, ended up in a fat disabled body. You know, and sometimes those cultural messages still play in my head that because I'm fat, I'm lazy.
Helen Sneed: When those thoughts, those old thoughts start sort of, you know, again, I always say it's like having a head full of rats. You know, they're just tearing away. What do you do to stop them or to push them away or whatever? Are there certain skills that you use?
Kaylin: It's hard because some of it is real. Right. Like there is, you know, the discourse around drugs like Ozempic. And I have gotten dirty looks on an airplane and I've had to get disability accommodations for something totally unrelated to weight or even shopping for clothing or reading social media comments. I mean, those are very real things that people in fat bodies face every day. And so it's hard to not have those thoughts pop in. Right. And bring me down. But overall, I know that it's my disorder talking to me. I can process those feelings with the support network that I've built up to get back to a place of acceptance and appreciation for my body and for myself apart from my body.
Helen Sneed: Well, that's that. Yeah, it's. I tell you what, it. For me, it was a change that took decades, but boy, when it happened, it has made all the difference in my life. And speaking of that, you know, change relationships, what about the people in your life, which relationships were supportive and strengthening as you as you fought for and then began to maintain a lot life and recovery? I mean, who are your best people?
Kaylin: Well, I have like my personal support and my clinical support. Right, right. So once I stepped down from those more intensive levels of care, I still needed a strong clinical support network. And I still tap into that network off and on when I need to. I have the same therapist who I still see weekly for talk therapy, cbt, dbt, emdr, codependency and addiction stuff. I have medical doctor who specializes in eating disorders that I've seen since I went to treatment. I'm now back in with a dietitian and I saw one for years after treatment. I have a psychiatrist and all my providers can talk with each other. So I've really set up that system of clinical support providers and they've been crucial in my ongoing recovery. And, you know, I have periods where I see them more in periods where I see them less, but they're always there. I also think that my 12 step recovery from alcoholism and my sobriety has been kind of a foundation of my recovery. I tried to address my eating disorder before I ever knew that I was an alcoholic. And it was impossible. I was just incapable of properly addressing the food and body stuff while I was still drinking. But, you know, working 12 steps, having the support network from, you know, those, those groups, and learning to have the willingness and sort of open mindedness and honesty with myself and others, I really needed that to be able to get into treatment and be open to doing what the professionals asked of me. And, you know, I still rely on my 12 step support groups significantly, even for these things that are kind of outside the bounds of what we usually talk about. Right. And then also, like, I've stayed connected to friends that I made in treatment. I've made friends with similar recovery values and stories, and I really hold those relationships dear because very few people
Kaylin: actually speak the language of eating disorder recovery, especially as a fat person. I need people who know what it feels like and can call my disordered thoughts, kind of call them on their s***, right? While also encouraging me to keep being compassionate to myself and or at least people who can say to me, you know, I get it and this sucks and you're not alone. I found a great community online of body positivity and fat liberation. I can't say enough about how, like the fat, black queer women who paved the way with this work and have taught the rest of us how to see ourselves and the world kind of free of these racist and misogynistic constructs that teach us to shrink ourselves. They really saved my life. And then my family has been incredibly supportive. They have changed things that they used to say all the time. You know, they don't talk about other women's bodies in front of me anymore. They don't, you know, talk about wanting to be thin or dieting or stuff in front of me. They know that that's off limits. When I came back from treatment, I was like, here's a list of my red flags. Please don't do this. You know, and they were super supportive. And finally, I can't leave out my husband if I need him to take on grocery shopping and meal planning and cooking, because it's too much for me, he does it. And if I need to do more of that to get back into some exposure for myself, he lets me. And just from the beginning of our relationship, he's made it a point to not put too much emphasis on telling me how pretty he thinks I am, because he appreciates me for so much more than that. And because of that, I feel more appreciated as a whole person.
Helen Sneed: He sounds like a fabulous guy.
Kaylin: Yeah, he's amazing.
Valerie Milburn: What were some of the major turning points in your life for this recovery journey that started, I'm wondering if. Was there just one or did you have several?
Kaylin: I mean, my major turning point was when I left my ex husband, I had a traumatic event that sort of made me realize that he had been abusing me for our entire relationship, which was almost a decade. And I realized it all at once, which was super traumatic. And I had been sober for a couple of years at that point. And it was like all of a sudden my entire adult life flashed before my eyes and came crashing down. And I had enough recovery from my alcoholism to know that I wouldn't be able to heal from the trauma of that and that relationship and that experience if I was still numbing things through my eating disorder. So I sought treatment at a place that could address both the eating disorder and the trauma simultaneously, while also supporting my 12 step alcoholism recovery. And you know, there was some stumbles along the way. Like I said, once I went away to that out of state, partial hospitalization residential program and that sort of separation happened and let me really focus on my recovery. That's where everything really changed for me. And one thing that I should say too is, is once that I hope helps other people who are coming home or, you know, stepping down in care. When I came back from the residential program, I had a bit of a come to Jesus with my therapist. I showed them the same list that I showed my family and I told them how important it was for them to call me on my bullshit because I can be really good at being a perfect patient. So not in like an intentional manipulative way. I'm still being genuine, but I'm good at saying the right things, doing the right things on the outside, while completely falling apart on the inside. And I needed them to be able to see through that. And when I told them that and told them what to look for, that was another turning point. And I mean, it took me a solid year of varying levels of care and then another year of like bi weekly dietitian appointments and weekly therapy. I've still in weekly therapy. And it's been eight years since, you know, I went to that residential treatment center, which is what I consider my eating disorder recovery anniversary. But, you know, I've been in pretty solid recovery since then. And I think that whole experience, that whole time was really that turning point.
Valerie Milburn: Wow.
Valerie Milburn: Helen's over there nodding about being perfect patient. She's talked a lot about that. Helen was very good at that too. So I know that's a real. That honesty in therapy is so hard to achieve, but boy, it sure changes everything when we do get honest. When I had my moment of honesty, that was the beginning of my turning point. Research shows that we have a long
Valerie Milburn: road, sometimes from diagnosis to proper treatment and then to recovery. Can you kind of guess how long it was from diagnosis to that moment where you just described your recovery anniversary? What do you think it was from diagnosis to recovery? How many years?
Kaylin: From the initial sort of unofficial diagnosis to the official diagnosis and going away to treatment and getting recovery was like five or six years. But I mean, I had suffered for years and years and years before that, before anyone even really noticed that it was a problem. I mean, you could make the argument that this started when I was 9 years old and I got the unofficial diagnosis when I was 25, the official one when I was 30, and that's when I went to treatment.
Valerie Milburn: So that's about a long time.
Kaylin: Most of my life.
Valerie Milburn: Right, right.
Helen Sneed: Well, speaking of this, I. I'm very curious because, you know, now you've got this recovery and, and it's very, it's wonderful and I'm impressed. And tell me something. How, how, when you have a setback or a slip, how do you handle that? And then what helps you stay on track when the symptoms or the urges get very, very intense and extreme? It's two things. When you do slip or how do you stop yourself from slipping?
Kaylin: Yeah, yeah. I mean, number one, I rely on my support network, like clinical or otherwise. I try to remain extremely honest with myself and aware of my patterns and thoughts. Thoughts. And when I get enough honesty with myself to go, ooh, something's not right, I tell someone, you know, and there's pros and cons to me processing things this way. But sometimes I tell as many people as it takes for me to feel like I have, you know, a solution. Like, I'll tell a handful of friends, I'll tell my 12 step group, I'll tell my therapist, I'll tell my doctor, and you know, sort of eventually something clicks and I can figure out a path forward. But I, I think, you know, I've had some significance, you know, slips or setbacks. I think one that I, I try to plan ahead to, I should say so. You know, I knew that pregnancy would be hard on me, for example, especially starting off plus sized. And I knew that the gynecologist I'd had for years didn't exactly have the best bedside manner regarding weight. So when I was ready for the preconception conversation, I chose an OB that my eating disorder doctor recommended as a health at every size clinic. And I did end up getting the things that fat moms are always warned about. You know, I got gestational diabetes and preeclampsia. But, you know, and as an aside, higher weight only increases your risks from like 8 to 12% or something like that. So don't quote me on the numbers, but you still have a much higher risk of not getting those things even when you're in a bigger body. But within two days of getting my gestational diabetes diagnosis and tracking my food and blood sugars, I was restricting. I wasn't eating when I was hungry and stopping before I was full while I was growing a human being in my body. So I talked to my doctors immediately and, you know, we figured out a different path forward for me that would let me be a little less restrictive in how I ate and I had to notice what I was doing, be honest with myself, and tell someone who could really help me. I'll also say that it's been a really long time since I've had more extreme urges, but when I did have them, that also helped. Talking to someone who got it, like I said, using a sensory tool like a weighted blanket or holding an ice cube to distract my nervous system.
Helen Sneed: You say that you don't have the very many extreme urges anymore. That is like music to a lot of people's ears. Do you have any idea how you sort of moved away from them or why they don't haunt you anymore and drive you nuts and, you know, out into the, out into the street?
Kaylin: I mean, I think number one, it's that I'm actually eating. You know, I still. But I have to say, eating disorders are so tricky. I've recently gotten back in with my eating disorder doctor and a dietitian because I'm having to manage my weight due to some health things that have come up, and I'm not willing to relapse in my eating disorder as a result. So I'm Learning that some sneakier, more subconscious behaviors have come back sort of unrelated to weight, like forgetting to eat during the day because I'm busy at work
Kaylin: or something like that. Those things still happen for me. But that really loud food noise or body noise or exercise noise that just kind of feels like the, the hamster wheel going nonstop. I mean that's been, I've been free of that for a really long time. And I think eating is why, you know, like when your body and your brain have proper nutrition, you don't obsess about food as much. I mean, that's just biologically how we're created as human beings.
Helen Sneed: And Kaylin, I don't think you know how helpful it is is for me to hear this, but I'm thinking of all our listeners. This is fabulous information and I guess you kind of have already led into the next question that we wanted to ask you about. As you look back on the arc of your life, you know, the whole kind of, the whole story, how did your eating disorder impact your roles and responsibilities? This is another thing I think people don't get to hear about very much. So I'm curious about how it affected your, your work and your career.
Kaylin: Yeah, I mean it's tough more than anything. I just think I wasn't present at all. Right. It's hard to be a good friend or employee or daughter or mother or sister. Any role that you have when your brain is always in the background obsessing about how your body looks and what you ate that day, what you want to eat, what you want to eat but think you shouldn't, you know, nutritional content of everything, how much you have to exercise to compensate, on and on and and on. I was just stuck inside myself. And even though my heart was always in the right place, it made me very self centered, very selfish. And so, you know, that's number one. I will say too that, you know, when I went away for intensive treatment, I did have to use FMLA and disability through work because I needed time away. And when I came back part time and had to like leave early for therapy and stuff, it was, it was difficult because some co workers had a perception of me that I was getting special treatment or something because I was still good at my job. And you know, fighting those perceptions has been incredibly difficult and sometimes disheartening, especially as like a gold star type of girl. But I got to a point where my well being and being able to live with myself and feel comfortable in my own skin was so much more important to me. That I couldn't care about those things now in my current relationship, you know, I, I think I've let my husband shoulder too much of the burden when it comes to feeding our family. It's been harder for me to help with that when he needs it. I would rather like order a pizza for everyone than actually, you know, grocery shop or something. But I'm working on it and I'm hopeful that I'll be able to contribute more in that way moving forward.
Valerie Milburn: Well, we know that any kind of a mental health condition definitely impacts every relationship in our life. And so that was what I wanted to ask you about, was being a mom and how.
Kaylin: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's, it's extremely challenging to raise kids without giving them food issues when you have food issues of your own. Like with my 4 year old, for example, he would eat nothing but lollipops all day if we let him. And you know, some days we do let him go hard on the candy. And like, I had to learn for myself. He eventually takes like 4 licks of 10 different lollipops and throws the rest away and then wants a piece of cheese or fruit. But we're still responsible for making sure that he gets adequate nutrition. So we try to make balance choices available to him without pressuring him into any one direction. If we see that he needs more protein in a day, for example, we might be like, hey, why don't you eat a hard boiled egg with that cookie so you have your some protein in your tummy to help you stay full. We try to give him the why in an age appropriate way without vilifying the cookie or the, the treats or holding them up on a pedestal so that he fixates on them. I also really try to do my best to not bribe or entertain with food. I think there are some exceptions like flying on an airplane or choosing a special celebratory meal. But for the most part, we try to keep our food talk really neutral for him. But that's just what works for us. I mean, I know that every kid and every family is different and food is so personal for every family. And then I try also to be very careful about what I say about my body in front of my kids. So I don't like to talk badly about my body in front of them or say things like, like I feel so fat or I can't wear a swimsuit. I try to model for them just living my life in my body. And I try to explain that all
Kaylin: bodies are different. Actually, the other day my little one asked why is your tummy so squishy, Mommy? And you know, of course like there was a part internally that was like on fire mentally. But I just calmly told him like some bodies are squishier and somebody's are harder and some parts of my body are squishier and some parts of my body are harder. And I showed him examples. And then we talked about how some people are short and some are tall, blue eyes and brown, different kinds of hair. You know, some people use wheelchairs to get around. I really try to teach and model like body neutrality and diversity and acceptance and the reality that all bodies are changing all the time. And teaching and modeling those things for my kids has helped me change my internal dialogue about it too. To reparenting myself.
Valerie Milburn: Reparenting yourself.
Valerie Milburn: That's such a hopeful answer and leads me right into the next thing. We always close our talks, conversations, wonderful interaction with guests by asking about hope. So what have you learned or experienced that gives you hope for others fighting it their way into recovery with eating disorders today?
Kaylin: So much I just truly believe that it's possible to be free from it and to stay relatively free from it. Different from alcohol recovery. I anticipate that my gray area eating disorder behaviors will always be there on some level and that I'll always need to have an awareness and honesty about that. But I've also experienced eight years of freedom almost entirely from constant food thoughts about food in my body. And that's just a miracle to me. So if I can give myself grace for my food fears or avoidance or hyper fixation sometimes, or days or periods of more negative body image and then get support for those things when I notice them coming up so that they don't develop into a more intense obsession or behavior, then I can be pretty free. And I've got been, you know, I've been painfully self aware of my body and painfully sort of squirrely about food for nearly my entire life. And if I can have this level of freedom, I truly believe that anyone can. I do have to acknowledge though that there's a tremendous amount of privilege that I have. I mean, I'm a college educated, upper middle class, professional cisgendered heterosexual white woman with only invisible disabilities. You know, I have the education and professional experience and communication skills and a lot of people don't have that. And you know, eating disorder diagnosis and treatment is so time consuming and so expensive and it's been historically seen as a rich, thin white girl disorder. But I do believe that with honesty, open mindedness, willingness, outreach for support Tenacity and just a deep down belief that I deserve freedom from this. Plus continued movement toward that freedom, regardless of roadblocks. Like, those are ultimately the things that saved me the most, and those are things that can be available to anyone. So I do have hope that others can access those qualities, even if some days they feel like it's difficult. But I bet you.
Helen Sneed: Thank you. That is enthusiastically optimistic and full of hope, which I think is, again, and you embody it. And Kaylan, it's an amazing story and it's hard to bring this to a close because you have given us this fascinating and very intimate look at your journey. Journey and also an inspirational outcome which we all. I always. We need to hear about. Right. But what I want most to recognize and thank you for is your courage in taking us with you today. Through witnessing your persistence and strength, you see, we can all feel hope for ourselves in this ongoing struggle for recovery. So thank you.
Kaylin: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. The ability to help others is a cornerstone of all of my recovery, and I feel honored to be asked to do that in this space. So it's been great. Thanks again.
Valerie Milburn: Thanks for joining us. And that's what motivates both Helen and me to do this podcast, is that we want to be of service and reach as many people as we can. And we couldn't do it without people like you giving us, you know, your time and your soul and your
Valerie Milburn: spirit. So thank you so much for being here.
Helen Sneed: Yeah, thank you. But now, Valerie, will you lead us in a mindfulness exercise?
Valerie Milburn: Yes, I will. We will close today's episode in our traditional way with the mindfulness exercise. What is mindfulness? I always give a definition. Mindfulness is defined as the awareness that emerges through paying attention on purpose in the present moment, non judgmentally to the unfolding experience, moment by moment. Today's mindfulness practice is called eating mindfully. Mindful eating can contribute to a healthier pattern of eating. And mindfulness reduces emotional eating because we can focus on enjoying the sensation of eating, on the smell, the taste, the texture of the food.
Valerie Milburn: Food.
Valerie Milburn: Not focusing on our thoughts. Also, when we focus on eating mindfully, we are less likely to mindlessly eat while, say, watching television. So let's explore eating mindfully.
Valerie Milburn: Let's get mindful.
Valerie Milburn: If you're driving or walking, as always, adapt this exercise in a way that fits your environment.
Valerie Milburn: Close your eyes if you can, settle in and breathe as always, let's begin with a few diaphragmatic breaths. Whether your eyes are open or closed, let's steady our breathing with two diaphragmatic breaths. When you do this on your own, take as many breaths as you need to become calm and centered. I usually take 10 diaphragmatic breaths to.
Valerie Milburn: Begin my mindfulness and meditation.
Valerie Milburn: Practice this let's Breathe. Inhale through your nose, expanding an imaginary balloon in your stomach as you inhale. Exhale through your mouth, pulling your stomach in as you do. Forcefully exhaling. Drop your shoulders. Inhale through your nose, expanding that balloon in your stomach. Exhale through your mouth. Pull your stomach all the way in. Keep this slow, steady breath going. Think of a food that you sometimes eat mindlessly. Is it chips or cookies while watching television? Something you grab for breakfast on your way out the door to work? Is there something you eat mindlessly? Or can you think of a food that triggers self judgment? Such thoughts as I shouldn't eat this or why did I eat that?
Helen Sneed: That?
Valerie Milburn: Or I shouldn't have eaten that? Visualize that food that you eat mindlessly or that triggers self judgment. Visualize sitting down to eat that food. Focus on the food. What does it look like? What is the shape? The color? Visualize picking it up to take a bite or holding a forkful. Inhale. What does your food smell like? Visualize taking a bite of your food. Focus your attention on the taste and the textures. While doing this, notice any thoughts that come to mind, but bring to mind words that describe the food. Rich. Smooth, Crunchy. Be aware of any feelings or sensations that arise and
Valerie Milburn: just label them. If they're negative, let them be. Now. Visualize eating slowly, enjoying the taste, the smell and the texture texture of this food. Breathe deeply while you enjoy this experience. If your eyes are closed, please open them and return your gaze to the room.
Valerie Milburn: Thank you for doing this mindfulness exercise with me.
Helen Sneed: Thank you Valerie. You know, mindfulness is one of the skills that can help with eating disorders and they're using it more and more. Kaylin, again, we are so grateful that you could bring such optimism to our podcast. And as always, Valerie and I want to thank and recognize our listeners for their courage in battling mental health issues. It's never easy, seldom fast, but recovery can be achieved. That's the message the three of us want to leave you with today. Now, in our next episode, we will go deep down into Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, ocd. The symptoms of this disorder can be devastating. Excessive thoughts, obsessions lead to repetitive behaviors, compulsions. So join us for an in depth examination of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. You won't want to miss it. There is so much to learn. Until then, I leave you with our favorite word. Onward.