The Family Dynamics of a Psychiatric Crisis--Part One: Personal Perspectives from a Sibling and a Spouse

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[00:01:07] Welcome to our award-winning podcast, Mental Health, Hope and Recovery.

[00:01:13] I'm Helen Sneed.

[00:01:15] And I'm Valerie Milburn.

[00:01:17] We both have fought and overcome severe chronic mental illnesses.

[00:01:23] Our podcast offers a unique approach to mental health conditions.

[00:01:27] We use practical skills and inspirational true stories of recovery.

[00:01:32] Our knowledge is up close and personal.

[00:01:35] Helen and I are your peers.

[00:01:37] We're not doctors, therapists or social workers.

[00:01:40] We're not professionals, but we are experts.

[00:01:43] We are experts in our own lived experience with multiple mental health diagnoses and symptoms.

[00:01:49] Please join us on our journey.

[00:01:53] We live in recovery.

[00:01:54] So can you.

[00:01:55] This podcast does not provide medical advice.

[00:01:59] The information presented is not intended to be a substitute for or relied upon as medical advice, diagnosis or treatment.

[00:02:07] The podcast is for informational purposes only.

[00:02:11] Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified mental health providers.

[00:02:16] Welcome to episode 47, the family dynamics of a psychiatric crisis.

[00:02:25] Part one, sibling and spouse, personal perspectives.

[00:02:31] With today's episode, we are embarking on a deep, fascinating journey into the family when a family member has a mental health condition.

[00:02:41] Now, although we've done an episode on family relationships, episode five, we are revisiting this vast topic because the roles of family members are as varied as the illnesses they can become enmeshed in.

[00:02:56] You know, given the quantity of questions and feedback we receive about family and caregivers, we want our listeners to join us on this exhaustive quest for education and education through many points of view and perspectives.

[00:03:12] We will share survival techniques, struggles, setbacks and triumphs.

[00:03:17] As the episodes unfold, we'll hear real life accounts from parents, siblings, spouses, children and the individual with the mental health challenge.

[00:03:29] A family therapist will wrap up this series with expert insights on the often difficult shifting dynamics of a family in crisis.

[00:03:39] Our overall goal is to define and demystify the impact of mental illness on the family and to enlighten and strengthen the impact of the family on mental illness.

[00:03:55] Today is part one, sibling and spouse, personal perspectives.

[00:04:01] Valerie, whose amazing recovery is known to our listeners and related in various past episodes,

[00:04:07] has invited two of the individuals most responsible for her recovery to join us.

[00:04:13] Her sister, Bernadette and her husband, Malcolm.

[00:04:17] This is a portrait of the strength, determination, sacrifice and love that they gave to Valerie over the long years required for her to overcome her demons, symptoms and multiple illnesses.

[00:04:30] Today, we will explore the challenges, setbacks and ultimate triumphs from the perspective of her two family members.

[00:04:39] Valerie?

[00:04:39] Valerie?

[00:04:40] When I told my husband that my sister was going to be a guest on our family series, he asked if we were going to include the spouse's perspective as part of the series.

[00:04:49] Well, you would never do it, I said.

[00:04:51] You never asked, he replied.

[00:04:53] I was so surprised that he wanted to be our guest.

[00:04:56] But he knows the goal of this podcast is to share our experiences in order to foster recovery and provide hope.

[00:05:04] He knows recovery and hope shines through the journey he and I traveled together.

[00:05:11] And so today I get to introduce the most important person in my life, my best friend, the father of my children, the person who kept me alive during my psychiatric crisis.

[00:05:24] My husband of 41 years, my Malcolm.

[00:05:29] I'll tell you a little bit.

[00:05:30] Go ahead, sweetie.

[00:05:32] What did you want to say?

[00:05:33] No, just good morning.

[00:05:34] I'm glad to be on your show.

[00:05:36] We're so glad to have you here.

[00:05:38] Let me tell you a little bit about him.

[00:05:40] Malcolm has been in the real estate business since the 70s and manages our real estate family partnership.

[00:05:46] His years in the food and beverage industry included catering and cooking as well as management and owning a bar.

[00:05:53] His passion is cooking and he's a fabulous cook.

[00:05:56] He loves to travel and is an avid reader.

[00:05:59] His favorite people call him granddad.

[00:06:02] There are now five who qualify to call him granddad.

[00:06:06] Malcolm is a multi-generation native Texan and his family has a rich Texas history.

[00:06:12] He may be an alumni of Monmouth College, but he's a University of Texas Longhorn fan.

[00:06:20] Malcolm, I don't even know how to thank you properly for being on this episode with us.

[00:06:25] You know, some of the things we talked about in preparing for this episode we had never talked about before.

[00:06:30] And your willingness to open your heart to our listeners has touched me deeply.

[00:06:36] I mean, I'm already crying.

[00:06:38] It's another example of how you have surprised me by supporting me in so many aspects of my journey these many years.

[00:06:45] Thank you for being here today.

[00:06:48] Well, thank you.

[00:06:49] I'm having a pleasure to be here with both of you.

[00:06:53] Well, I also am, I guess, beyond grateful.

[00:06:57] And I have to say, I'm very I'm looking forward to our discussion and hearing this story because I think it's going to help a tremendous amount of people.

[00:07:07] So let's just begin.

[00:07:09] The first question for you is what incident made you realize for the first time that Valerie was in real trouble with her mental health?

[00:07:19] Well, I had seen some indications of fairly minor, you know, irritability being kind of short with with me or the kids or.

[00:07:33] But the real incident was when I got a phone call from her employer saying that Valerie had had a breakdown and was on the floor of her office.

[00:07:42] And would I please come down and get her?

[00:07:46] And I was shocked and drove down there immediately to find her totally incapacitated.

[00:07:54] She was just sick.

[00:07:56] And and I immediately got her up and we left there and went home and we called her doctor.

[00:08:05] And that was the first indication that I had that that Valerie really had a severe problem and needed much more attention than than I had been giving.

[00:08:17] And especially from her professionals.

[00:08:19] That was the first indication.

[00:08:21] Thank you for taking care of me that day.

[00:08:24] And so you had a lot to learn from that point on.

[00:08:27] And where and how did you learn about my condition?

[00:08:33] You know, like what helped you understand what I was going through when so much of my behavior must have just been bewildering and frustrating?

[00:08:43] The you and I both went to a marriage counselor earlier in our marriage, and it helped me a great deal.

[00:08:53] I've benefited enormously from it.

[00:08:55] You had already been in some counseling and but I'd never experienced that.

[00:09:02] I had a counselor that was just for me and he helped immensely and letting me vent telling my problems, giving me some good advice, giving me some tools to work with you in your mental illness.

[00:09:19] And the other thing was your psychiatrist invited me with your permission to come to one of the early meetings with you and he really helped.

[00:09:32] He was just great.

[00:09:33] He explained things to me.

[00:09:34] I didn't know anything about mental illness.

[00:09:37] He explained what was going to happen and what was going on the medicines, the the just your visits with him.

[00:09:45] And I was so glad to have his advice.

[00:09:49] He was a great help to me.

[00:09:51] And and and you were very nice to let me go to your meetings with him.

[00:09:57] And it was I would recommend that to anybody, any other person that's that has a family friend or family member that is suffering from mental illness is to please try to get in and see the psychiatrist and to seek counseling for yourself to get through this.

[00:10:21] So your psychiatrist and my counselor.

[00:10:24] Great.

[00:10:24] Yeah.

[00:10:25] And as sick as I was, I'm so glad that I was talked into allowing, you know, for that confidence to be shared.

[00:10:34] Malcolm.

[00:10:37] What provided our kids with the comfort and understanding they needed to face my condition?

[00:10:44] I mean, how did you explain it to them so they could comprehend and accept it at their young ages?

[00:10:50] The I remember one evening.

[00:10:56] It was early and you're going to hospital visits and.

[00:11:02] And.

[00:11:05] I had cooked dinner, we had sat down and had dinner, it was in it was like the first night that you had been gone on this hospital visit.

[00:11:15] And.

[00:11:16] And.

[00:11:17] And so we finished dinner and they went to take their baths and I went back into the end of the bedroom to see how they were doing there in their pajamas.

[00:11:25] And.

[00:11:26] And.

[00:11:27] Buckley was.

[00:11:28] And.

[00:11:28] Kneeling down in the middle of her bed.

[00:11:32] And she was trembling, shaking.

[00:11:34] She wasn't crying.

[00:11:37] She just.

[00:11:38] She was so upset that she could couldn't speak.

[00:11:42] And I went and I grabbed her and held her.

[00:11:45] And.

[00:11:46] And told her that everything was going to be all right.

[00:11:50] That your.

[00:11:51] Your mommy is going to come home.

[00:11:54] That she misses you, that she loves you.

[00:11:57] And.

[00:11:58] It's just that she's.

[00:12:00] She's sick and she needs to have help in the hospital.

[00:12:04] And that's why I explained it to her.

[00:12:07] And I got her calmed down enough.

[00:12:11] And then I walked over into our son's room and he was just a little boy at the time.

[00:12:18] I mean, he, I don't know exactly how old he was standing there in the room.

[00:12:23] He had probably heard me talking to his sister.

[00:12:27] And he looked up at me and he had these big tears rolling down his cheeks.

[00:12:32] And he said.

[00:12:35] You know.

[00:12:37] He's barely get the words out.

[00:12:39] He said, he said, you know, a little boy needs his mommy.

[00:12:47] That was so hard.

[00:12:50] To hear.

[00:12:51] I mean, I knew it.

[00:12:53] I mean, it was a.

[00:12:55] I grabbed.

[00:12:55] Yeah, of course, hugged him and held him and told him the same things that I was telling his sister.

[00:13:03] That that you loved him.

[00:13:05] That you are going to be back home with him.

[00:13:09] That you are getting treatment because you are sick.

[00:13:12] And.

[00:13:14] And.

[00:13:15] And got him to calm down.

[00:13:16] But.

[00:13:17] At that time, I knew.

[00:13:20] That my life had changed.

[00:13:23] Immeasurably.

[00:13:24] That I was going to.

[00:13:27] That I was going to.

[00:13:28] Have to focus.

[00:13:29] On getting you better.

[00:13:31] And.

[00:13:33] And taking care of our children.

[00:13:35] I knew that.

[00:13:39] That that was my goal.

[00:13:40] And that I had to do everything that I was possibly able to do.

[00:13:45] To help you get better.

[00:13:49] And.

[00:13:50] And to make sure that our kids.

[00:13:53] Understood what was going on.

[00:13:55] I couldn't get into a lot of.

[00:13:56] They weren't very old.

[00:13:58] But I could tell them that you were getting help.

[00:14:01] And that you wanted to be home.

[00:14:04] And that you loved them.

[00:14:05] And.

[00:14:06] And that I loved you.

[00:14:08] And you loved me.

[00:14:11] So that was.

[00:14:12] That was the.

[00:14:13] That was how it started.

[00:14:15] And.

[00:14:17] And.

[00:14:17] And it meant that.

[00:14:20] That that was what I did.

[00:14:22] I took care of the kids.

[00:14:24] I supported you.

[00:14:26] And.

[00:14:27] And went on with my life.

[00:14:28] But there was a.

[00:14:29] A lot of things that I dropped.

[00:14:31] Friends.

[00:14:32] Going out.

[00:14:33] Uh.

[00:14:34] Doing a lot of other things.

[00:14:36] Um.

[00:14:36] I was just strictly focused.

[00:14:38] I.

[00:14:39] Um.

[00:14:40] I had my head down.

[00:14:41] And I was just going forward.

[00:14:42] With trying to.

[00:14:44] Uh.

[00:14:44] Get us through this.

[00:14:46] Uh.

[00:14:47] This.

[00:14:48] This really terrifying.

[00:14:50] Um.

[00:14:51] Situation.

[00:14:55] This leads to.

[00:14:58] Uh.

[00:14:58] Uh.

[00:14:59] Another.

[00:14:59] Um.

[00:15:01] A sort of.

[00:15:02] Turning point in the sequence of events.

[00:15:05] Her seventh hospitalization.

[00:15:07] Led you to the decision that Valerie couldn't come home.

[00:15:11] Can you talk about that decision?

[00:15:14] Uh.

[00:15:15] Sure.

[00:15:15] I dropped the kids off at school or some event and then came home and.

[00:15:20] Um.

[00:15:20] And I could hear.

[00:15:22] Uh.

[00:15:22] Screaming and crying.

[00:15:25] Um.

[00:15:25] Coming from our bedroom.

[00:15:27] I go in there and I see.

[00:15:28] This horrifying scene.

[00:15:31] Of.

[00:15:32] Valerie.

[00:15:32] She's on the phone with her psychiatrist.

[00:15:35] Um.

[00:15:36] There's been.

[00:15:37] There's been physical damage.

[00:15:38] Done to herself.

[00:15:40] And.

[00:15:42] Uh.

[00:15:42] She was totally.

[00:15:43] Out of it.

[00:15:44] She handed me the phone to her psychiatrist and he.

[00:15:48] Uh.

[00:15:48] It reminded me that.

[00:15:49] Um.

[00:15:50] That she had.

[00:15:50] Having a breakdown.

[00:15:52] And that the.

[00:15:55] Uh.

[00:15:56] Um.

[00:15:56] The ambulance and the police were on their way over which they showed up.

[00:16:00] Nearly immediately.

[00:16:02] And they took over.

[00:16:04] And.

[00:16:06] And tried to help her.

[00:16:07] And she resisted and was yelling and screaming at them.

[00:16:11] And I was.

[00:16:13] Um.

[00:16:13] I was just.

[00:16:15] In the.

[00:16:17] Superfied by it all.

[00:16:18] I didn't know how to help my wife.

[00:16:21] My wife.

[00:16:22] Um.

[00:16:23] She was cursing at the.

[00:16:25] EMS people.

[00:16:26] And.

[00:16:27] And.

[00:16:29] Anyway.

[00:16:29] I.

[00:16:30] I remember telling a police officer.

[00:16:31] I said.

[00:16:32] Police don't hurt her.

[00:16:33] She's sick.

[00:16:34] And.

[00:16:35] Anyway.

[00:16:35] They.

[00:16:36] They put her in the gurney and took her off.

[00:16:38] Um.

[00:16:39] And so.

[00:16:40] In talking to her psychiatrist.

[00:16:43] It.

[00:16:43] It was just not safe.

[00:16:45] Uh.

[00:16:46] For.

[00:16:47] Valerie.

[00:16:47] Or the kids.

[00:16:48] Uh.

[00:16:49] To have her in.

[00:16:51] In our house.

[00:16:52] In our home.

[00:16:52] In our home.

[00:16:53] Together.

[00:16:54] And.

[00:16:57] And.

[00:16:58] We agreed that.

[00:16:59] We would tell her that.

[00:17:01] Um.

[00:17:02] And it was supposed.

[00:17:03] It's supposed.

[00:17:04] To be an impetus.

[00:17:06] For her.

[00:17:07] To.

[00:17:08] Uh.

[00:17:08] To get better.

[00:17:10] It was.

[00:17:10] Um.

[00:17:12] It was a stark choice.

[00:17:15] You either.

[00:17:16] Uh.

[00:17:16] Get better.

[00:17:17] Get control of your alcoholism.

[00:17:19] And your drug addiction.

[00:17:21] Um.

[00:17:22] Do everything you can on your mental health.

[00:17:24] Taking your medicines.

[00:17:26] And listening.

[00:17:27] Listening to your psychiatrist.

[00:17:29] You have to do that.

[00:17:31] And go into.

[00:17:32] Uh.

[00:17:32] The.

[00:17:32] Um.

[00:17:33] And.

[00:17:36] And get better.

[00:17:38] Or you can't come home.

[00:17:39] And you'll lose your family.

[00:17:42] I had full confidence.

[00:17:44] In Valerie.

[00:17:45] That she was going to work hard.

[00:17:48] Do everything possible.

[00:17:49] To get back to our family.

[00:17:52] And it was really tough to tell her that.

[00:17:55] And I'm sure it was very.

[00:17:57] Very tough for her to hear that.

[00:18:00] And she made the decision that I.

[00:18:03] I just knew she would make.

[00:18:04] And that was to go to the sober house.

[00:18:07] And she was there for six months.

[00:18:11] Yeah.

[00:18:12] Very long.

[00:18:13] Six months.

[00:18:14] Okay.

[00:18:15] I knew she would do that.

[00:18:16] She's a very strong woman.

[00:18:17] She's a.

[00:18:18] She's a.

[00:18:19] Tough old.

[00:18:21] Texas girl.

[00:18:22] And.

[00:18:23] Um.

[00:18:26] And so she went to the sober house.

[00:18:28] And she worked at it.

[00:18:29] She did everything.

[00:18:30] She took.

[00:18:31] Went to meetings.

[00:18:32] She.

[00:18:33] Did her meds.

[00:18:35] Uh.

[00:18:36] We would go out and.

[00:18:38] Visit her with the kids.

[00:18:39] And you could just see.

[00:18:40] How much better she was doing.

[00:18:42] She was so happy to see them.

[00:18:45] And the kids were elated to see her.

[00:18:48] Of course.

[00:18:48] But that was the.

[00:18:50] That was the.

[00:18:50] The hardest decision.

[00:18:52] That I made during this illness.

[00:18:55] And.

[00:18:55] And it.

[00:18:56] Uh.

[00:18:56] And it.

[00:18:56] And it certainly worked.

[00:18:57] She even went out and.

[00:18:59] Got a great job.

[00:19:00] And.

[00:19:01] Worked at that job.

[00:19:03] And even got promotions.

[00:19:05] And all sorts of stuff.

[00:19:06] It was just so good for her.

[00:19:07] It was not.

[00:19:08] It was not stressful.

[00:19:09] She worked herself back into.

[00:19:11] Uh.

[00:19:12] Coming home.

[00:19:13] And it was.

[00:19:13] Must have been really hard for her to do that.

[00:19:16] And.

[00:19:17] Uh.

[00:19:17] I've always admired.

[00:19:19] Her courage.

[00:19:21] And her.

[00:19:22] Um.

[00:19:22] Tenacity.

[00:19:24] Um.

[00:19:25] To do everything.

[00:19:26] To get back to her family.

[00:19:29] Sweetie.

[00:19:30] I know that was probably.

[00:19:31] I know that was the hardest decision you ever made.

[00:19:33] And it was the best decision you could have made.

[00:19:36] And it was.

[00:19:36] It was my turning point.

[00:19:38] Malcolm.

[00:19:39] What you are describing is.

[00:19:41] I think almost unthinkable.

[00:19:42] For so many people.

[00:19:44] And.

[00:19:44] I'm curious.

[00:19:46] What sustained you most.

[00:19:49] Over all those years it took for her to achieve sobriety.

[00:19:52] And overcome her illnesses.

[00:19:54] What.

[00:19:54] What gave you the inner strength to carry on this.

[00:19:58] Frankly.

[00:19:59] Not just arduous.

[00:20:00] But hellish journey.

[00:20:01] That you were on.

[00:20:02] I had.

[00:20:03] Enormous support from Valerie's sister Bernadette.

[00:20:06] Uh.

[00:20:08] Who is on this episode also.

[00:20:10] Uh.

[00:20:10] I don't.

[00:20:11] Bernadette has a.

[00:20:12] A counselor.

[00:20:14] Has several master's degrees.

[00:20:15] And.

[00:20:15] And she knew.

[00:20:17] The things to tell.

[00:20:18] Me.

[00:20:19] And to tell.

[00:20:21] Uh.

[00:20:21] The children.

[00:20:22] Especially the children.

[00:20:23] Of what's going on.

[00:20:25] And to comfort them.

[00:20:26] And.

[00:20:27] And.

[00:20:28] Having her help was.

[00:20:29] Uh.

[00:20:30] I don't know if I could have.

[00:20:32] Made it through without.

[00:20:33] Help from.

[00:20:34] Uh.

[00:20:35] Bernadette.

[00:20:36] I had my.

[00:20:37] I think I've already said that I've had my head down.

[00:20:39] And I was just.

[00:20:40] Uh.

[00:20:41] Going straight ahead with whatever I could to.

[00:20:44] Help.

[00:20:44] Valerie.

[00:20:45] We scheduled our.

[00:20:47] Um.

[00:20:47] Meals.

[00:20:48] Our events.

[00:20:49] Anything we could.

[00:20:50] Around her meetings.

[00:20:52] Uh.

[00:20:52] Or.

[00:20:53] Or visits to her psychiatrist.

[00:20:55] Or.

[00:20:55] Um.

[00:20:56] Whatever it took to.

[00:20:57] Uh.

[00:20:57] Help her.

[00:20:58] Um.

[00:21:00] The other.

[00:21:01] We had a.

[00:21:01] A really dear friend of Valerie.

[00:21:04] Uh.

[00:21:05] And myself.

[00:21:06] Uh.

[00:21:07] She also.

[00:21:09] Came in.

[00:21:09] And.

[00:21:10] And gave me a lot of support.

[00:21:12] When this was going on.

[00:21:14] Uh.

[00:21:14] And I couldn't have done it without her help.

[00:21:17] Um.

[00:21:17] So I had these two friends that were.

[00:21:20] Uh.

[00:21:21] Uh.

[00:21:21] My friends and family that.

[00:21:22] That.

[00:21:23] Kept me going.

[00:21:25] Um.

[00:21:26] I also had my.

[00:21:27] Uh.

[00:21:28] Uh.

[00:21:28] Counselor.

[00:21:28] And I could go vent.

[00:21:30] I could.

[00:21:31] Say.

[00:21:31] I don't understand this.

[00:21:33] I'm.

[00:21:33] I'm.

[00:21:33] I'm sick of this.

[00:21:34] And.

[00:21:35] And he would.

[00:21:37] Um.

[00:21:38] Get me back on.

[00:21:39] Help get me back on track.

[00:21:40] He would.

[00:21:42] Give me some tools to.

[00:21:44] Uh.

[00:21:44] Deal with.

[00:21:45] Different situations that were coming up.

[00:21:47] And.

[00:21:48] That was immense help.

[00:21:49] And.

[00:21:50] And I would encourage.

[00:21:52] Um.

[00:21:53] Any.

[00:21:54] Anybody.

[00:21:55] That finds themselves in the same situation that I found myself.

[00:21:58] Uh.

[00:21:59] Uh.

[00:21:59] To.

[00:21:59] To.

[00:22:00] Make sure that you have at least.

[00:22:02] At least one person.

[00:22:03] Uh.

[00:22:04] A family member.

[00:22:05] Perhaps.

[00:22:06] That.

[00:22:06] Is.

[00:22:07] Is.

[00:22:07] Great.

[00:22:08] If you have one that you can trust.

[00:22:09] And.

[00:22:11] The other thing is to have some sort of professional counselor.

[00:22:15] If you can.

[00:22:16] Find somebody.

[00:22:17] That you can go.

[00:22:18] And.

[00:22:19] Help yourself.

[00:22:21] If they can give you the advice that you need.

[00:22:23] To.

[00:22:24] Uh.

[00:22:24] To continue this.

[00:22:26] A battle.

[00:22:26] Against these.

[00:22:27] Uh.

[00:22:27] Horrible diseases.

[00:22:28] Were there specific turning points.

[00:22:31] When you felt really hopeful.

[00:22:33] And when you.

[00:22:33] You realize that Valerie had regained her mental health.

[00:22:36] Or was in the process of regaining it.

[00:22:39] Yeah.

[00:22:40] There were.

[00:22:41] And it started over there.

[00:22:42] At the.

[00:22:43] At the sober house.

[00:22:44] Uh.

[00:22:45] When I saw all that she was doing.

[00:22:48] Uh.

[00:22:48] To get back to us.

[00:22:50] And I.

[00:22:50] I just knew.

[00:22:52] That.

[00:22:52] Um.

[00:22:54] I knew that.

[00:22:55] That was the woman.

[00:22:56] That I had married.

[00:22:58] That she was not going to give up.

[00:23:00] And it gave me great hope.

[00:23:02] Just to see her progress.

[00:23:03] Doing that.

[00:23:04] I mean.

[00:23:05] She started getting.

[00:23:07] Uh.

[00:23:07] Through her meetings.

[00:23:08] She started getting.

[00:23:10] Being a sponsor to other.

[00:23:12] Um.

[00:23:14] People with.

[00:23:15] Similar problems.

[00:23:17] And.

[00:23:17] Uh.

[00:23:18] She went and.

[00:23:18] Ended up volunteering at the Austin State Hospital.

[00:23:22] For the mental health patients over there.

[00:23:25] With alcoholism.

[00:23:26] But she did that.

[00:23:27] Like once a week for.

[00:23:29] Years.

[00:23:31] And I.

[00:23:31] All these things just made me so proud of her.

[00:23:34] And.

[00:23:35] And she continues this day to do.

[00:23:37] The volunteer work.

[00:23:38] And that helps her.

[00:23:39] Keeps her sober.

[00:23:41] It keeps her on track.

[00:23:42] And.

[00:23:44] Uh.

[00:23:44] It's.

[00:23:45] It fulfills her life.

[00:23:46] There is.

[00:23:48] So much stigma.

[00:23:49] About mental illness.

[00:23:51] So much more then.

[00:23:52] Than even.

[00:23:53] There is now.

[00:23:54] And.

[00:23:55] How did you come across.

[00:23:57] The stigma that was out there then.

[00:23:59] And still now.

[00:24:00] And how did you deal with it?

[00:24:02] Well.

[00:24:03] Uh.

[00:24:03] Yeah.

[00:24:04] This was.

[00:24:05] You know.

[00:24:05] 25.

[00:24:05] 25.

[00:24:06] 25 years ago.

[00:24:07] Or.

[00:24:08] Or.

[00:24:08] Even longer.

[00:24:09] Uh.

[00:24:10] Maybe closer to 30.

[00:24:11] Uh.

[00:24:12] Years ago.

[00:24:12] And then.

[00:24:13] People really didn't talk much about stigma.

[00:24:16] It was just there.

[00:24:17] It was there.

[00:24:18] Um.

[00:24:19] Uh.

[00:24:20] Uh.

[00:24:20] My dad.

[00:24:22] Uh.

[00:24:22] God bless him.

[00:24:23] Uh.

[00:24:23] Uh.

[00:24:23] Uh.

[00:24:23] Uh.

[00:24:24] It was kind of.

[00:24:24] Well.

[00:24:28] Uh.

[00:24:31] Uh.

[00:24:32] Uh.

[00:24:37] Uh.

[00:24:37] Uh.

[00:24:38] Uh.

[00:24:38] Uh.

[00:24:39] Uh.

[00:24:41] Uh.

[00:24:41] Uh.

[00:24:42] Uh.

[00:24:43] Uh.

[00:24:44] Uh.

[00:24:44] Uh.

[00:24:46] Uh.

[00:24:50] Uh.

[00:24:50] Uh.

[00:24:50] Uh.

[00:24:50] Uh.

[00:24:51] Uh.

[00:24:52] Uh.

[00:24:53] being around people and discussing anything to do with your mental illness.

[00:24:59] That may not have been a good choice, but I was just concentrated on getting you well,

[00:25:08] and I didn't really want to do the stigma battle with anybody.

[00:25:13] I hope we'll see the day when stigma on mental illness, alcoholism, drug addiction,

[00:25:20] people realize that it's a disease.

[00:25:22] This is a different kind of question.

[00:25:25] What was the most precious attribute of Valerie's that you feared you had lost forever?

[00:25:31] I never really gave up on Valerie.

[00:25:34] I knew that she was going to come back to us, but there are some things that I missed,

[00:25:40] and it may seem like a real small thing, but Valerie has this great laugh,

[00:25:49] and she can find a small mishap.

[00:25:56] I'll do something silly or something, and she'll just burst out laughing.

[00:26:00] I really missed that.

[00:26:03] You're making me laugh now, which is good because I've been sitting over here crying through a lot of this,

[00:26:09] so thank you.

[00:26:12] Well, you know, when she first got back from the sober house, that was missing.

[00:26:19] It took a long while before she got back to where she could laugh not only at me,

[00:26:29] which was a great source of laughter, but she could laugh at herself,

[00:26:33] and that was so good to see come back.

[00:26:37] The kids loved it.

[00:26:38] I can remember sitting around the dining table after she was back,

[00:26:43] and all of us just cracking up over things, and that was such a joy to see.

[00:26:48] I love that you remember that.

[00:26:52] I relayed that memory not too long ago on the podcast here

[00:26:58] about sitting at the dining room table one night and everybody laughing and passing food

[00:27:05] and thinking to myself, this is it.

[00:27:09] This is what I want.

[00:27:11] This is a full life.

[00:27:12] So that's why you remember that, too.

[00:27:14] We always had dinner every night with our kids, even when they were teenagers.

[00:27:21] It was amazing, and it was such an enjoyable time.

[00:27:25] And, yeah, we couldn't have done it without you back.

[00:27:29] So, yeah.

[00:27:31] This is quite a story.

[00:27:33] Malcolm, I have one last question about today.

[00:27:38] Do you ever worry about Valerie slipping back?

[00:27:42] And if you do, what do you do about it?

[00:27:48] She asked me several years ago to be her barometer,

[00:27:55] to be her finger in the wind as to how she was doing,

[00:28:02] if I saw any signs that would make me anxious.

[00:28:07] Because it was always in my mind that this mental illness journey can pop up again,

[00:28:18] but it hasn't.

[00:28:20] There have been some minor things that I would say,

[00:28:24] you seem a little irritable, more irritable today than you were yesterday,

[00:28:31] and is there something going on?

[00:28:33] And if I thought something was not right, I'd ask her about it,

[00:28:37] and we'd talk about it, and she'd tell me what was going on,

[00:28:41] leave my anxieties.

[00:28:43] I was very aware of her everyday mental health, and still do.

[00:28:54] But I'm not afraid of it.

[00:28:57] I don't think she's going to slip back into where we were at all.

[00:29:04] There's no doubt in my mind about that.

[00:29:08] Well, that's so nice to hear.

[00:29:10] And thank you for being my barometer and helping me stay on track.

[00:29:15] And you are my hero for the understanding and the compassion that you have shown for me today

[00:29:23] and for mental illness in general, because it's hard to understand.

[00:29:29] And thank you for just the love that shines through,

[00:29:34] the support you've provided for me in the past and ongoing support

[00:29:39] and the strength that you showed and the intimacy you shared today.

[00:29:44] And I love you, and I thank you.

[00:29:47] Well, honey, you know, I made a vow 41 years ago

[00:29:52] that we were going to take care of each other in sickness and in health.

[00:29:57] So we've done that.

[00:29:59] Well, Malcolm, you embody that.

[00:30:01] And I also want to thank you because I feel that you have made us privy to

[00:30:07] or illuminated a truly, truly valuable story.

[00:30:12] And I know it was very private for you, but thank you.

[00:30:16] And on behalf, I think, of so many of our listeners.

[00:30:26] Well, as I thought about how to introduce my sister Bernadette to our listeners,

[00:30:30] my first thought was to say,

[00:30:35] we are sharing a gold nugget with you today because we are.

[00:30:41] Let me tell you a little bit about my sister.

[00:30:44] Bernadette is a helper.

[00:30:45] She's a literal lifesaver to me and a helper to many

[00:30:50] and to thousands and thousands of school kids during her 31-year career in education.

[00:30:55] She started her career as an early childhood special education teacher,

[00:31:01] but spent the majority of those 31 years as a middle school guidance counselor,

[00:31:05] a gifted guidance counselor.

[00:31:07] Her undergraduate degree is in education and her two master's degrees are in education and counseling.

[00:31:13] In retirement, Bernadette continues to serve the community as an active volunteer.

[00:31:17] She is a pickleball addict, loves her book club, and has a beautiful garden.

[00:31:24] Bernadette is the beloved Aunt Bea to two generations of nieces and nephews, 29 of them.

[00:31:31] Bernadette, I just can't even believe you are here.

[00:31:35] It means so much to me.

[00:31:37] I love you.

[00:31:39] Thank you for doing this episode with us.

[00:31:42] Well, I'm honored to be a part of this.

[00:31:47] Well, Bernadette, I'm also thrilled that you're here.

[00:31:52] And what we're going to do is just jump right in because we have so many questions to ask you

[00:31:57] and I'm dying to hear your answers.

[00:31:59] So here's the first one.

[00:32:01] What incident made you realize for the first time that Valerie was in real trouble with her mental health?

[00:32:08] I knew things were not going well, to put it lightly.

[00:32:12] But I think the day she actually lost her job was probably the biggest event that really knocked it home that things were pretty serious.

[00:32:28] Yeah, that was a big day.

[00:32:29] And I just recently found out that you went to my office to see if I was there,

[00:32:34] and they told you that I no longer worked there.

[00:32:37] So that was interesting to find out.

[00:32:41] Looking back on it, are there signs you think you may have missed?

[00:32:46] I think the two biggest things were, one, I was aware of Valerie's level of alcohol and drug use.

[00:32:57] And I never really understood.

[00:33:02] I didn't know as much about it at the time about substance abuse as I do now.

[00:33:07] But I was always confused and amazed both at the same time that Valerie was able to function as well as she did under, you know,

[00:33:19] the use of substances.

[00:33:23] Whereas, you know, it seemed like most people didn't do that.

[00:33:27] But I do remember thinking, you know, wow, how can she go to work?

[00:33:31] And how can she go to class and, you know, do all these things that she does?

[00:33:36] And, you know, when she's had whatever she's had to drink or that was just always a puzzle to me.

[00:33:45] And then the fact that she was, she seemed, especially towards, you know, when things got really rough,

[00:33:53] that Valerie would be, you know, in bed for a day or a couple of days maybe.

[00:34:01] And I thought she was sick because that's the way she would present.

[00:34:06] You know, that she didn't feel well and was, you know, having flu or had fever or had bad cold or something.

[00:34:13] And I do remember thinking, wow, Valerie is sick again, you know,

[00:34:18] and kind of didn't put together until much later that that was her way of coping.

[00:34:26] But those, I think, were the two big things looking back that I wish I had kind of paid more attention to.

[00:34:35] Well, here's sort of looking at the different side of it.

[00:34:39] Was there a specific turning point when you first felt hopeful after all the turmoil?

[00:34:48] I can't say that there was a specific time or a specific incident that made me feel everything's going to be okay now.

[00:34:57] I remember it being more of a process.

[00:35:01] It took, you know, years before I really felt that way and really believed that it was going to all be okay.

[00:35:11] So I really can't, Helen, identify something specific.

[00:35:18] But I do remember, you know, several times thinking, you know, where, you know, what's going on?

[00:35:26] Is she okay?

[00:35:26] And then realizing things, she was fine.

[00:35:28] And it was like, oh, okay, it's okay.

[00:35:31] And when that happened, you know, many times over many years, I started realizing she was, you know, she was out of the deep trouble that she was in.

[00:35:42] I can give you a specific incident.

[00:35:44] I remember one Sunday we were all at a family event.

[00:35:48] Valerie was doing much, much better.

[00:35:50] I hadn't seen Valerie for, I don't even know how long, 20, 25 minutes or something.

[00:35:56] And I remember I had been looking around for her, starting getting a little panicked, you know, what's going on?

[00:36:01] I don't know where, I haven't seen her.

[00:36:02] And there was no one in the group that I was comfortable asking, you know, have you seen Valerie except her husband?

[00:36:11] And, you know, I did go to him and pulled him aside and said, I haven't seen Valerie for a while.

[00:36:16] Do you know where she is?

[00:36:17] And he immediately started, you know, thinking, well, last time I saw her was over here.

[00:36:23] Let me look around.

[00:36:24] And it turned out, you know, she was just, you know, with another group.

[00:36:27] Everything was fine.

[00:36:29] And he came and told me everything's fine.

[00:36:31] She's good.

[00:36:31] And I remember thinking that specifically that day and several times after that, okay, you can stop, you can stop, you know, being so worried.

[00:36:42] She's okay.

[00:36:42] And I just remember having to go through that quite a few times before I thought, you know, you can let go a little bit.

[00:36:52] So it was years.

[00:36:53] And we know it was years.

[00:36:55] My journey of crashing and burning and coming back and crashing again went on for five years.

[00:37:02] And so what sustained you?

[00:37:04] What gave you the inner strength during these long years that it took me to achieve sobriety?

[00:37:09] What carried you through this arduous journey we made together?

[00:37:14] Well, I think it's a couple things.

[00:37:17] The first thing I think of is I wanted Valerie to be okay and her kids, I think.

[00:37:24] I was, you know, always wanting to be there for her kids.

[00:37:29] But I think what helped me the most was probably Valerie's husband, Malcolm.

[00:37:37] I want to say that we were there for each other.

[00:37:40] I think he would say the same thing.

[00:37:42] He was the one I was really able to talk to because I knew he understood more than probably anyone else, you know, how difficult it was and what we were both going through.

[00:37:54] I don't remember talking a lot to other people at the time.

[00:37:59] I know my really good friend, I believe she had young kids at the time.

[00:38:05] I don't really remember, you know, leaning on her a lot for support.

[00:38:10] I did have a person I was, a boyfriend I was with for a couple of years during that time, during some of that time, who was very supportive.

[00:38:20] He did understand what was going on.

[00:38:22] But mostly I think it was her husband and not really family members that I was able to talk to.

[00:38:34] Bernadette, was it enough to have enough to support you just to have one person who really got it and who also really cared so much as you did?

[00:38:43] Just in terms of getting enough support to get through because you guys had some long years.

[00:38:48] Yes and no, Helen is my answer to that.

[00:38:52] Yes, it was, I mean, Malcolm was very, very much a support and very strong and very helpful to me.

[00:38:59] But no, looking back, I wish I had talked about it more with maybe one or two family members I could have reached out to, but I didn't.

[00:39:14] I mean, there was one that was, you know, who was involved, but I don't really remember leaning on that person that much.

[00:39:20] I wish I had talked to my friends more, but I just didn't.

[00:39:24] I guess I didn't feel comfortable or close enough.

[00:39:27] Now I feel like I would have a lot of, I would definitely reach out more for support if I was going through it now.

[00:39:34] What symptoms or aspects of her illnesses challenged you the most as you look back?

[00:39:41] There was only one incidence where I saw a symptom that I was definitely very uncomfortable with, extremely uncomfortable with.

[00:39:51] And that was the night that Valerie disassociated.

[00:39:56] I had never seen that, you know, happen.

[00:40:01] I had never been a part of that.

[00:40:03] I did not know very much about it.

[00:40:06] And I didn't know what to do.

[00:40:08] I didn't know what to do to help.

[00:40:09] But I do remember feeling very helpless when that happened.

[00:40:17] And, you know, as far as her substance abuse, I understood.

[00:40:21] It was like, how can someone do that much?

[00:40:23] You know, that didn't make a lot of sense to me.

[00:40:26] But I don't really remember struggling with that the way I did that one night that she actually, that I saw her disassociate.

[00:40:35] All right.

[00:40:36] Which is pretty scary.

[00:40:37] Yeah.

[00:40:38] Whether you're watching or doing it, I can tell you it's pretty scary.

[00:40:42] I know that night was very difficult for everybody involved.

[00:40:48] So on a more positive note, supporting my children.

[00:40:52] You were a vital support to my children.

[00:40:56] And they really, I don't know how they would have gotten through it without you.

[00:40:59] Can you talk about the ways you supported and even the ways you protected them during my crisis?

[00:41:07] I can.

[00:41:08] And I'm glad I was there for you kids.

[00:41:11] I am so happy that I was available for them.

[00:41:16] And I think the first thing I want to say is it was very easy for me to be there for them.

[00:41:24] It was easy for me to support them.

[00:41:26] I have always cared about them deeply and love them very, very much.

[00:41:32] So that part of it was never, you know, difficult.

[00:41:36] Even time putting in, you know, I mean, it didn't matter if it was late at night.

[00:41:41] It just didn't matter.

[00:41:42] They were very easy to take care of and to be there for.

[00:41:50] I think, you know, mainly I just, you know, try to let them know that I was there to support them and to love them.

[00:42:01] And they didn't talk about things very much, really, except that, you know, that they missed their mom.

[00:42:08] And occasionally they would ask a few questions and, you know, just being able to validate, you know, that it was hard for them.

[00:42:19] I just tried to be there for them and, you know, whatever they were bringing to me or I wanted them to know I was, you know, certainly not mom, but that I loved them and, you know, and that I cared about them.

[00:42:39] And I think by supporting Malcolm in the ways that I did was one of the big reasons I did it was not only for Malcolm, but was for the kids.

[00:42:49] Because I knew if I helped Malcolm, that was helping the kids.

[00:42:54] So it was and I didn't have I don't have kids of my own.

[00:43:00] And so, you know, it wasn't I was available.

[00:43:02] I was able to do that.

[00:43:05] But sometimes I look back and if I had had kids, you know, would I have been as available for them?

[00:43:11] I'm thinking maybe no.

[00:43:13] You know, who knows?

[00:43:14] No.

[00:43:15] Here's a tough one.

[00:43:16] Were there times you thought you'd have to walk away?

[00:43:20] And what in your relationship with Valerie brought you back?

[00:43:24] I've thought about this many times over the years.

[00:43:27] And I've even shared this with other friends or acquaintances who have maybe been going through something like this.

[00:43:35] There was one time where I did need to step away a little bit.

[00:43:42] And it was when things were, you know, were pretty tough.

[00:43:47] There was a lot, you know, a lot of things happening with Valerie.

[00:43:50] And I think I just I wasn't in a great place myself right then.

[00:43:57] And I just needed to step back and kind of refocus.

[00:44:01] And I remember going over to Valerie's house.

[00:44:03] I believe I don't think she was even there.

[00:44:05] I think she was probably, you know, it was during one of her hospitalizations.

[00:44:10] And I remember knocking on the door and asking her husband to step outside for a minute, you know, because the kids were inside.

[00:44:16] And I just told him, I said, Malcolm, this is not this isn't easy for me to do, but I need some time right now and I need to step away a little bit.

[00:44:24] I didn't feel that I I told him this.

[00:44:27] I think I didn't feel like I was stepping away from Valerie because, you know, there wasn't a lot I could do for her directly right then anyway.

[00:44:36] But I did feel some guilt stepping away from Malcolm and the kids.

[00:44:41] But I said, Malcolm, I just I need a little time to kind of, you know, get myself together.

[00:44:47] And he totally understood.

[00:44:49] I don't know.

[00:44:50] I would like to ask him one of these days if he remembers that, if he was upset with me.

[00:44:55] Maybe he certainly had a reason to.

[00:44:57] But I think I did let him know it's not going to be long.

[00:45:00] I just need, you know, a little bit of time.

[00:45:03] I mean, I was thinking a couple of days or a week.

[00:45:06] You know, I knew it wasn't going to be long.

[00:45:08] I couldn't have stepped away for longer than that.

[00:45:11] I was too concerned about Valerie and the family.

[00:45:14] But just a little time.

[00:45:16] And I think I got to, you know, told him, even though I need to step away, you know, if you need me at the last minute or in the middle of the night for the kids, of course you call me.

[00:45:32] You know, but I need a little distance.

[00:45:35] But I hope I didn't leave them hanging, you know, as far as the kids go.

[00:45:39] And here's a question about where you guys are today.

[00:45:46] Do you ever worry about Valerie slipping back?

[00:45:49] And if you do, what do you do?

[00:45:53] I don't remember ever worrying anymore about Valerie going back to substance abuse.

[00:46:01] I know how hard she has worked.

[00:46:04] I know that she knows what she would lose.

[00:46:10] She's got so much in her life, family and, you know, everything that she has.

[00:46:18] I've never been concerned about that the last, you know, bulk of the time.

[00:46:25] And as far as, you know, yeah, I do look for signs of, you know, depression and maybe, you know, her being triggered from trauma.

[00:46:38] And I sometimes feel a little protective, maybe a little too protective.

[00:46:42] It's good for me to probably think about this.

[00:46:45] But I always have to remind myself that if I'm ever concerned about that, Valerie has so many resources.

[00:46:54] She has so many skills, so many strategies that and she uses them.

[00:47:01] She uses them all the time and she knows when to use them.

[00:47:05] She knows she does them constantly.

[00:47:07] She's got so many people that she falls back on for support and she knows when to go to them.

[00:47:13] So I don't ever, ever worry about her getting back in the place that she was.

[00:47:19] I think it's more, you know, just little things that, you know, you know, maybe I get a little concerned.

[00:47:27] I know during the pandemic, it was a tough time for Valerie and a lot of us, you know, and I, we would walk every morning because that was really important for both of us.

[00:47:38] And I remember Valerie, I might have checked in with her a little bit more during that time.

[00:47:43] And after our walk, I would say, you know, what's on your agenda for today?

[00:47:46] Because I knew she needed to have projects.

[00:47:51] Whereas, you know, for me, it was like, oh, I'll just go home and figure out what I'm going to do today.

[00:47:55] And, you know, but Valerie needed to have a schedule and have some agenda because she's got so much of that in her life and it's important to her.

[00:48:04] So, yeah, maybe during that time I did, you know, was a little bit more aware.

[00:48:08] But I think now it's just, you know, just kind of being aware of what might be triggering for her or if she's really upset about something.

[00:48:18] But I never have worried about her getting back to that point.

[00:48:22] I just think she's learned so much and she's pretty on it.

[00:48:31] Thank you for that vote of confidence.

[00:48:35] Well, it's true.

[00:48:37] Thank you.

[00:48:38] Bernadette, thank you so much.

[00:48:40] I mean, you shared from the depth of your soul today.

[00:48:43] And I know it wasn't easy, but you have helped so many people with your vulnerability and your honesty.

[00:48:51] I mean, thank you for today.

[00:48:52] Thank you for your support during my crisis.

[00:48:55] And thank you for your ongoing support in my recovery.

[00:49:00] I love you, sis.

[00:49:02] I love you, too.

[00:49:03] And I'm very pleased that I was able to do this.

[00:49:06] And I hope it's been and will be helpful to a lot of people.

[00:49:10] And you're always there for me as well.

[00:49:13] And I think that's what it's all about.

[00:49:18] Well, I can assure you, Bernadette, that your courage and candor today will go a long way for our listeners and their families.

[00:49:27] You should know that you're a hero to me, as I know you are to Valerie.

[00:49:32] And as someone who treasures Valerie and the rich life that she has, you have helped her build in recovery.

[00:49:38] I just feel deeply indebted to you and your immeasurable contributions.

[00:49:44] So thank you for sharing your journey with our listeners and especially for providing such inspiration and hope for all of us.

[00:49:51] Both of you, your brave and generous accounts of a family in crisis are just invaluable, I think.

[00:49:59] And also to you, Valerie, for allowing us this intimate discussion with the two people whose commitment and love supported you throughout your hard-won recovery.

[00:50:11] So my thanks to all of you.

[00:50:14] And I know that mindfulness has been instrumental and continues to be in your achieving and maintaining your life in recovery.

[00:50:23] So Valerie, please lead us in an exercise.

[00:50:27] I will be happy to.

[00:50:29] We will indeed close today's episode in our traditional way with a mindfulness exercise.

[00:50:35] What is mindfulness?

[00:50:37] I always give a definition.

[00:50:38] Mindfulness is a mental state achieved by focusing one's awareness on the present moment while calmly acknowledging and accepting one's feelings, thoughts, and bodily sensations without judgment.

[00:50:54] I often say to myself, that's not in my hula hoop.

[00:50:59] Well, this has two meanings for me.

[00:51:01] The first one is when I'm referring to something that is out of my circle of control.

[00:51:06] The second one is when someone has crossed my boundary line, jumped into my hula hoop.

[00:51:14] Today, we're going to focus on the second one.

[00:51:17] We're going to become mindful of our hula hoop, of our boundary line.

[00:51:23] Let's do it.

[00:51:24] Let's get mindful.

[00:51:29] Close your eyes if you can.

[00:51:30] Settle in and breathe.

[00:51:33] As always, let's begin with a few diaphragmatic breaths.

[00:51:38] Whether your eyes are open or closed, let's steady our breathing with two diaphragmatic breaths.

[00:51:46] When you do this on your own, take as many breaths as you need to become calm and centered.

[00:51:53] Let's breathe.

[00:51:55] Inhale through your nose, expanding an imaginary balloon in your stomach as you inhale.

[00:52:03] Exhale through your mouth, pulling your stomach in as you do.

[00:52:08] Forcefully exhaling.

[00:52:11] Again.

[00:52:13] Inhale through your nose, expanding that balloon in your stomach.

[00:52:18] Drop your shoulders.

[00:52:21] Exhale through your mouth, pulling your stomach in.

[00:52:26] Exhale forcefully.

[00:52:27] Now keep this slow, steady breath going.

[00:52:36] Imagine there is a hula hoop spinning around your waist.

[00:52:42] This is a magical hula hoop.

[00:52:45] It spins on its own.

[00:52:48] Imagine it floating in the air around your waist, slowly spinning.

[00:52:54] The hula hoop is creating a space around you that is just yours.

[00:53:01] Space that is just for you.

[00:53:07] What would you like to put in this space?

[00:53:12] Peace?

[00:53:15] Serenity?

[00:53:17] Health?

[00:53:21] Safety?

[00:53:23] What would you like to put in this personal space?

[00:53:29] What needs to stay out of this space in order to achieve what you have put in it?

[00:53:51] Is there anyone who needs to respect this space in a certain way?

[00:54:05] Is there something you need to do to respect this space?

[00:54:25] Do the answers to these questions define a boundary?

[00:54:29] Valerie, now if you can, visualize writing something on your hula hoop.

[00:54:58] If your eyes are closed, please open them and gently bring yourself back to the room.

[00:55:06] Thank you for doing this mindfulness exercise with me.

[00:55:11] Well, thank you, Valerie.

[00:55:13] I want you to know that I will be working with my hula hoop very much this weekend.

[00:55:21] We want to encourage you, our listeners worldwide, to join us for the family dynamics of a psychiatric crisis, part two.

[00:55:31] Caregivers talk turkey to caregivers.

[00:55:33] The entire episode will be geared to the relationships, counseling, methods, skills, and necessities to soothe and support caregivers.

[00:55:42] Those with the sometimes grueling roles and responsibilities of caring for a family member with a mental health condition.

[00:55:51] Please don't miss it.

[00:55:54] Until then, I leave you with our favorite word, onward.

[00:55:58] Are you ready to ignite your best life and illuminate the world?

[00:56:13] I'm Stephanie James.

[00:56:15] I'm a motivational speaker, transformation coach, and psychotherapist.

[00:56:20] And what lights me up is helping people just like you create the greatest versions of themselves.

[00:56:27] On my podcast, Igniting the Spark, I will help you ignite your joy and reach new heights in your personal and professional life.

[00:56:35] Join me for some incredible conversations with authors, spiritual teachers, and other influential thought leaders to help guide you on your way.

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[00:57:18] In my podcast, Rewritten with Cynthia Ocelli, we will focus on what you do have control over.

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