The Family Dynamics of Psychiatric Crisis—Part Two: Caregivers Talk Turkey to Caregivers

[00:00:01] The following podcast is part of the MindBodySpirit.fm podcast network.

[00:00:08] Are you looking to have more meaning and joy in life?

[00:00:11] Living gratefully is a powerful practice that transforms every day.

[00:00:16] For 25 years, Grateful Living has empowered people worldwide to discover hope and happiness even in the most challenging times.

[00:00:25] Our simple daily practices will expand your perspective, awaken you to life's precious gifts, and deepen your connections.

[00:00:33] You may not have time to sit and meditate, but there's always time to be grateful.

[00:00:38] Start practicing today at grateful.org.

[00:00:52] Welcome to our award-winning podcast, Mental Health, Hope and Recovery.

[00:00:58] I'm Helen Sneed.

[00:01:00] And I'm Valerie Milburn.

[00:01:02] We both have fought and overcome severe chronic mental illnesses.

[00:01:08] Our podcast offers a unique approach to mental health conditions.

[00:01:12] We use practical skills and inspirational true stories of recovery.

[00:01:17] Our knowledge is up close and personal.

[00:01:20] Helen and I are your peers.

[00:01:23] We're not doctors, therapists, or social workers.

[00:01:25] We're not professionals, but we are experts.

[00:01:28] We are experts in our own lived experience with multiple mental health diagnoses and symptoms.

[00:01:35] Please join us on our journey.

[00:01:39] We live in recovery.

[00:01:41] So can you.

[00:01:43] This podcast does not provide medical advice.

[00:01:46] The information presented is not intended to be a substitute for or relied upon as medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

[00:01:55] The podcast is for informational purposes only.

[00:01:58] Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health providers with any health-related questions you may have.

[00:02:08] Welcome to episode 48, the family dynamics of a psychiatric crisis.

[00:02:15] Part two, caregivers talk turkey to caregivers.

[00:02:19] This is the second part of our in-depth series about the family in times of psychiatric crisis.

[00:02:25] What happens and what to do when one member has a mental health condition.

[00:02:29] To represent all points of view, we will hear from parents, siblings, spouses, children, the individuals with the mental health challenges, and a family therapist.

[00:02:40] Our overall goal is to define and demystify the impact of mental illness on the family, and to enlighten and strengthen the impact of the family on mental illness.

[00:02:51] And today, we will indeed hear caregivers talk turkey to caregivers.

[00:02:57] And we have two very special people talking turkey today, my own husband and sister.

[00:03:05] Well, as we're going to learn, caregiving is a tough job when it becomes a major role and responsibility of a family whose member is suffering from mental health challenges.

[00:03:17] We are going to offer education on how to be a positive influence in this difficult time.

[00:03:24] We'll also look at the importance of self-care, supportive relationships, counseling in the face of burnout, stress, fatigue, despair.

[00:03:32] And then we'll wrap up with a mindfulness exercise with Valerie, as we always do.

[00:03:38] You know, Helen, the National Alliance on Mental Illness has some wonderful advice for caregivers when caring for a family member in a psychiatric crisis.

[00:03:48] And I'd love it if you'd kick it off by sharing some of NAMI's caregiver advice.

[00:03:55] Well, Valerie, I think that it's important for us to do this right now because, as you and I are always stressing, there's so much to be gained in the importance of educating oneself about these illnesses.

[00:04:08] It is as important for caregivers to understand it as it is for the person with the psychiatric challenges.

[00:04:16] Yes.

[00:04:16] So here's what NAMI recommends.

[00:04:18] Meet your loved one where they are.

[00:04:22] In the stages of illness, wherever they are, from denying the problem to recovery, be with them there and don't push ahead.

[00:04:30] Stay in the moment.

[00:04:32] Listen in order to communicate.

[00:04:35] Don't tell them how you can help.

[00:04:37] Ask if you can help and how.

[00:04:41] Show compassion for past mistakes.

[00:04:45] Try to convey empathy and your compassion, including for past behaviors.

[00:04:49] Avoid shaming.

[00:04:53] Encourage self-empowerment.

[00:04:55] It is the basic key to recovery, independence, and the ability to motivate oneself.

[00:05:01] Practice positive reinforcement.

[00:05:04] Even the smallest accomplishments can be huge.

[00:05:07] Valerie, we know this so well.

[00:05:09] Getting dressed, taking a shower, answering the phone.

[00:05:12] Regardless of how small these steps may seem to you, recognize and praise them.

[00:05:20] Avoid helicoptering.

[00:05:21] Well, it's just what it sounds like.

[00:05:23] That's hovering about the person, you know, too ready to swoop in for a crisis.

[00:05:28] Just, you know, back off a little if you can.

[00:05:31] And finally, access peer insights.

[00:05:34] Now, peers are people who have gone through the same psychiatric difficulties.

[00:05:39] So, use the matchless wisdom of those with this lived experience.

[00:05:44] Peers who have recovered can also provide inspiration and hope to all involved.

[00:05:50] Those are such good tips.

[00:05:52] The one I really like is meet people where they are.

[00:05:56] Meet your family member right where the struggle is or where the triumph is.

[00:06:03] I love that.

[00:06:04] And there's another set of tips that NAMI offers.

[00:06:08] And if you want to share those, I know they will be of value.

[00:06:12] So, that'd be great, Helen.

[00:06:15] All right.

[00:06:16] Number one, know your involvement can improve outcomes.

[00:06:22] In many areas, this is true.

[00:06:24] I mean, so many areas.

[00:06:25] Providing family history.

[00:06:27] Advocating with insurance and legal issues.

[00:06:29] Helping to find resources.

[00:06:32] And to overseeing the treatment team.

[00:06:34] You can be an invaluable support and resource to your loved one throughout this process.

[00:06:40] Number two, prepare for a marathon, not a sprint.

[00:06:46] Unfortunately, recovery isn't linear.

[00:06:49] Caregivers must take the long view.

[00:06:51] Knowing this makes certain to practice self-care consistently.

[00:06:56] And to build the emotional stamina needed on such a difficult journey.

[00:07:01] And also, to be mindful of finances and the reality that the treatment may be costly for a long time.

[00:07:09] Number three, build a village of support.

[00:07:13] Help find and then work with the treatment providers when they need your input.

[00:07:17] And there are professionals in place in various locations to assist you with negotiating the system.

[00:07:25] You don't have to do it alone.

[00:07:27] Number four, surround yourself with supportive and empathetic friends.

[00:07:33] Mental illness still is stigmatized by many.

[00:07:36] And in the face of your situation, some of your friends may not be able to cope.

[00:07:41] But others will come through for you, help to listen or lighten your load.

[00:07:46] So protect your boundaries and remember to preserve your strength for the battle at hand on behalf of your loved one.

[00:07:54] Number five, practice radical acceptance.

[00:08:00] Reframe your expectations from what your loved one may have been to who your loved one is today.

[00:08:07] And you may experience grief over the loss of that person that your loved one used to be.

[00:08:11] But try to stay in the present moment and be with your person where they are now.

[00:08:18] If you can, replace your expectations with acceptance of the situation.

[00:08:25] Because with the right attitude, it can become tolerable and even enjoyable.

[00:08:31] Six, remain person-centric.

[00:08:35] Teach yourself more positive language and attitudes that move away from the, you know,

[00:08:40] the kind of tired old concept of mental illness and being a sick person.

[00:08:44] Because with the right attitude, you can help the person become more optimistic

[00:08:49] and recovery-oriented with the right language.

[00:08:51] You can help strengthen their self-image and self-esteem

[00:08:55] and that sense of empowerment that is so important.

[00:08:57] And finally, number seven, be open to exploring outside the standard medical model.

[00:09:05] For example, medication can help reduce symptoms.

[00:09:08] It's very important.

[00:09:09] But the individual needs other support just as much.

[00:09:13] Trusting relationships with family and close friends,

[00:09:17] a good therapist and psychiatrist,

[00:09:19] a place in the community,

[00:09:21] healthy living through self-care,

[00:09:23] and meditation and mindfulness.

[00:09:25] These can be life-saving to an individual fighting for recovery.

[00:09:30] That is such good advice from NAMI, as usual.

[00:09:34] The National Alliance on Mental Illness provides such good information.

[00:09:36] And I particularly like the part you mentioned, Helen,

[00:09:40] about caregivers needing to support themselves

[00:09:42] through the process of supporting their loved one.

[00:09:46] And we're going to hear about that from my sister, Bernadette,

[00:09:49] and my husband, Malcolm,

[00:09:50] who are again joining us in part two of this five-part series.

[00:09:55] If you, our listeners, have not yet tuned into our last episode,

[00:09:59] part one of this family series,

[00:10:00] it is a powerful episode with these two people

[00:10:04] who loved and supported me through my crisis

[00:10:07] and who now support me in my life and recovery.

[00:10:10] Let me share just a few comments from our listeners about that episode.

[00:10:15] Here's what one listener said.

[00:10:17] Your recent podcast is really great and intimate.

[00:10:22] You two continue to advance real talk

[00:10:25] and place the emphasis on the tough stuff that enables a breakthrough.

[00:10:33] I want to also encourage people to go back and listen to this.

[00:10:36] It's an astounding episode.

[00:10:39] I have been telling Valerie it's an instant classic.

[00:10:44] Thanks, Helen.

[00:10:45] I want to share a little bit about Malcolm and Bernadette

[00:10:48] as the people they are beyond the roles they played as my caregiver.

[00:10:54] And Malcolm is my husband of 41 years.

[00:10:58] He's my best friend

[00:10:59] and the person who kept me alive during my psychiatric crisis.

[00:11:03] He is a real estate professional

[00:11:05] and manages our real estate family partnership.

[00:11:07] His business degree is from Monmouth College.

[00:11:10] Malcolm spent years in the food and beverage industry,

[00:11:14] including cooking, catering, and owning a bar.

[00:11:18] Cooking is Malcolm's passion, and he's a fabulous cook.

[00:11:22] He enjoys working on our South Texas ranch

[00:11:24] and soaking in the gorgeous wildlife there.

[00:11:27] He is granddad to five of our favorite people.

[00:11:31] Malcolm is a multi-generation native Texan,

[00:11:34] and his family has a rich Texas history,

[00:11:37] and he is definitely my favorite Texan.

[00:11:40] My sister Bernadette is a helper,

[00:11:44] a literal lifesaver to me,

[00:11:46] and a source of support to many

[00:11:48] and to thousands and thousands of school kids

[00:11:51] during her 31-year career in education.

[00:11:53] She spent the majority of those 31 years

[00:11:56] as a middle school guidance counselor,

[00:11:58] and I mean a gifted guidance counselor.

[00:12:01] Her undergraduate and two master's degrees

[00:12:04] are in education and counseling.

[00:12:07] Bernadette is a pickleball addict,

[00:12:09] loves her book club,

[00:12:11] and has a beautiful garden.

[00:12:13] Bernadette is the beloved Aunt Bea

[00:12:15] to two generations of nieces and nephews,

[00:12:18] 29 of them.

[00:12:19] No, wait, 30 as of last week.

[00:12:24] You know, Valerie,

[00:12:25] when we sat down for our conversation

[00:12:27] with Malcolm and Bernadette,

[00:12:29] they were already chatting about the episode,

[00:12:32] and here's what they had to say.

[00:12:34] It's fascinating.

[00:12:35] I've kind of been wanting to talk to you

[00:12:37] about these things for a long time,

[00:12:39] and I've never done it.

[00:12:41] So it's kind of,

[00:12:43] I've been,

[00:12:44] I didn't know if you would want to,

[00:12:46] but...

[00:12:46] Yeah.

[00:12:47] No, I'm glad this popped up

[00:12:50] because it made me go back and think,

[00:12:52] and I'm still at a loss for dates

[00:12:54] and exactly what happened when

[00:12:57] and exactly what my reaction was.

[00:12:59] So much of it was just a blur.

[00:13:01] I think it's good.

[00:13:02] It's made me really think about some things,

[00:13:04] and, you know,

[00:13:05] I think it's great,

[00:13:06] and I think it's going to be very helpful

[00:13:08] to other people going through it.

[00:13:10] Absolutely.

[00:13:11] From the beginning of our conversation

[00:13:13] with Malcolm and Bernadette,

[00:13:15] I could see immediately

[00:13:17] how close they are.

[00:13:18] Now, I know this bond was forged

[00:13:20] as together they cared for you, Valerie,

[00:13:22] during the long, dark years.

[00:13:25] Now, let's join the conversation

[00:13:28] and learn firsthand

[00:13:29] about caregiving in the family.

[00:13:32] So how did the two of you

[00:13:34] support each other

[00:13:35] through those long hours

[00:13:38] and long years

[00:13:39] of the caregiving you had to do

[00:13:42] for me?

[00:13:45] Well, Bernadette,

[00:13:47] you know,

[00:13:48] I'm not sure that I

[00:13:51] gave you a lot of support.

[00:13:53] You know,

[00:13:54] I hope that I did,

[00:13:55] but I don't really,

[00:13:57] you and I were talking earlier

[00:13:59] that we were forgotten

[00:14:01] a lot of things,

[00:14:02] and I hope I gave you some support

[00:14:04] and just that,

[00:14:05] I think that we just visited a lot

[00:14:07] when you were over at the house

[00:14:09] and talked about Valerie

[00:14:12] and what was going on.

[00:14:14] What's your recollection?

[00:14:16] Yeah, and it's...

[00:14:17] I think you gave me more support

[00:14:18] than I gave you.

[00:14:20] Well, I think you had

[00:14:23] a little bit more going on

[00:14:24] with the kids,

[00:14:26] but it was funny

[00:14:27] you said that, Malcolm,

[00:14:28] because my reaction

[00:14:29] was the same thing.

[00:14:30] It was like,

[00:14:31] I feel like I supported Malcolm,

[00:14:33] you know,

[00:14:33] by helping with the kids

[00:14:35] and, you know,

[00:14:35] whatever, you know,

[00:14:36] I could do to run errands

[00:14:38] or something,

[00:14:40] but I don't know

[00:14:41] how much I really checked in

[00:14:43] with you,

[00:14:43] but I think the fact

[00:14:44] that we both knew

[00:14:46] what was going on,

[00:14:48] that was supportive to me.

[00:14:51] because I don't really remember

[00:14:53] sharing a lot

[00:14:54] of really how serious things were,

[00:14:58] you know,

[00:14:58] with other people in my life.

[00:15:00] And you were the person,

[00:15:03] you know,

[00:15:04] who knew exactly

[00:15:05] what was going on,

[00:15:06] and that was very helpful to me,

[00:15:08] just being able to,

[00:15:09] you know,

[00:15:10] to talk to you

[00:15:11] and like you said,

[00:15:12] about what was going on.

[00:15:14] And I feel like

[00:15:16] that was supportive.

[00:15:18] Well,

[00:15:20] yeah,

[00:15:20] and I do remember

[00:15:21] that part,

[00:15:23] that we were there

[00:15:25] for each other,

[00:15:26] especially when we had

[00:15:28] some other little crises.

[00:15:30] I remember one time

[00:15:31] when Valerie,

[00:15:33] we didn't know

[00:15:34] where she was,

[00:15:35] and we went

[00:15:36] and walked

[00:15:36] to the neighborhood.

[00:15:37] We went all,

[00:15:39] everywhere,

[00:15:39] looking around,

[00:15:40] trying to find Valerie.

[00:15:42] And it turned out

[00:15:43] that she was

[00:15:43] in her closet

[00:15:45] back behind the

[00:15:47] clothing,

[00:15:48] and

[00:15:49] you and I

[00:15:50] were just

[00:15:52] flabbergasted.

[00:15:52] We didn't know

[00:15:53] what,

[00:15:53] why she was

[00:15:54] doing that,

[00:15:55] and it helped.

[00:15:57] I don't know

[00:15:57] what I would have done

[00:15:58] if you had not been there.

[00:16:00] I think

[00:16:00] that was

[00:16:01] the night

[00:16:02] that Valerie

[00:16:03] disassociated,

[00:16:04] and that was

[00:16:05] probably

[00:16:05] the incident

[00:16:06] that was

[00:16:08] the most confusing

[00:16:09] and the most scary

[00:16:10] for me.

[00:16:11] And obviously

[00:16:12] it was for Malcolm also.

[00:16:14] You know,

[00:16:15] I didn't know,

[00:16:17] I had never seen that,

[00:16:18] and it was.

[00:16:20] Malcolm,

[00:16:20] you know,

[00:16:21] fortunately got

[00:16:22] her therapist

[00:16:24] on the phone,

[00:16:25] and that was

[00:16:25] very helpful

[00:16:26] for us.

[00:16:27] I didn't even know

[00:16:28] what the association

[00:16:29] was.

[00:16:30] Yeah,

[00:16:32] and I didn't realize

[00:16:33] that's what she was doing

[00:16:34] until the therapist

[00:16:35] was talking to Malcolm.

[00:16:37] So yeah,

[00:16:37] it was,

[00:16:39] it was just,

[00:16:40] it was hard,

[00:16:41] some of it,

[00:16:41] and I think just

[00:16:42] the fact that

[00:16:43] maybe that Malcolm

[00:16:44] and I both

[00:16:45] were involved

[00:16:45] to the level

[00:16:46] that we were,

[00:16:48] that that in itself

[00:16:49] was helpful

[00:16:49] because like I said,

[00:16:50] I don't remember

[00:16:51] talking to a lot

[00:16:52] of other people

[00:16:53] in my life

[00:16:55] about

[00:16:56] what was really

[00:16:57] going on.

[00:16:57] I think they knew,

[00:16:58] you know,

[00:16:59] just a little

[00:17:00] and not

[00:17:01] the details.

[00:17:03] There were some

[00:17:03] of our other

[00:17:04] family members

[00:17:05] that knew

[00:17:05] something about it,

[00:17:06] but not the details.

[00:17:08] Exactly.

[00:17:08] And I know

[00:17:10] my folks

[00:17:12] were around

[00:17:13] back then

[00:17:14] and

[00:17:14] they were helpful

[00:17:16] to me

[00:17:17] and to the kids,

[00:17:19] but not in a,

[00:17:20] not in anything

[00:17:21] to do with

[00:17:22] with Valerie's

[00:17:23] disease.

[00:17:24] It was just

[00:17:25] centric

[00:17:26] around

[00:17:26] helping us

[00:17:29] do something

[00:17:30] other than worry,

[00:17:31] you know.

[00:17:32] Yeah,

[00:17:33] that's pretty accurate

[00:17:34] from what I remember.

[00:17:36] You know,

[00:17:37] and I,

[00:17:37] like I said,

[00:17:38] I tried to do

[00:17:39] what I could

[00:17:40] for Malcolm

[00:17:41] with the kids,

[00:17:43] you know,

[00:17:43] and as I mentioned,

[00:17:45] that was very easy

[00:17:46] for me.

[00:17:46] I loved doing that.

[00:17:48] I adored the kids,

[00:17:49] still do.

[00:17:50] You know,

[00:17:51] so that was not,

[00:17:52] that was not difficult

[00:17:53] for me

[00:17:53] to support him

[00:17:54] in that way.

[00:17:57] But,

[00:17:57] Yeah,

[00:17:58] my goodness,

[00:17:58] you were there

[00:17:59] for the kids,

[00:17:59] but there are a lot

[00:18:00] of things

[00:18:01] that I just

[00:18:01] had a hard time with.

[00:18:03] This,

[00:18:04] you know,

[00:18:04] you guys

[00:18:05] are just,

[00:18:06] just sort of

[00:18:07] immersed

[00:18:07] in a crisis

[00:18:08] almost overnight

[00:18:09] and you,

[00:18:10] you had no time

[00:18:11] for a learning curve.

[00:18:12] So,

[00:18:13] how did you

[00:18:14] prioritize

[00:18:16] obligations

[00:18:16] and responsibilities

[00:18:18] around Valerie's needs,

[00:18:20] which were also

[00:18:20] so crucial?

[00:18:21] I mean,

[00:18:21] this must have seemed

[00:18:22] like triage.

[00:18:23] Yeah,

[00:18:24] it was,

[00:18:24] it was very difficult.

[00:18:25] I pretty much

[00:18:27] dropped

[00:18:28] nearly all my

[00:18:29] social,

[00:18:32] social visits

[00:18:33] with other friends

[00:18:35] and things like that.

[00:18:37] I mean,

[00:18:37] I just didn't have time

[00:18:38] to do any of that

[00:18:39] anymore.

[00:18:40] And,

[00:18:42] so,

[00:18:43] I still

[00:18:45] did some work

[00:18:46] and as much

[00:18:47] as I could

[00:18:48] and,

[00:18:49] but my priority

[00:18:50] of course

[00:18:51] was with the kids

[00:18:52] and,

[00:18:53] yeah,

[00:18:54] it was,

[00:18:55] and learning curve,

[00:18:57] yeah,

[00:18:58] I knew nothing

[00:18:58] about mental illness

[00:19:01] and it was so great

[00:19:03] to be able

[00:19:03] to talk to

[00:19:04] my counselor

[00:19:05] and to be able

[00:19:06] to talk to

[00:19:07] her psychiatrist

[00:19:09] and he

[00:19:10] was one of those

[00:19:11] guys that said,

[00:19:12] you call me

[00:19:12] if there's something

[00:19:13] coming up

[00:19:14] that you can't

[00:19:14] handle,

[00:19:15] give me a call.

[00:19:16] And so,

[00:19:17] it was not,

[00:19:18] it's so nice

[00:19:18] to have a professional

[00:19:19] be able to explain

[00:19:21] to me

[00:19:21] what was going on

[00:19:23] and I highly

[00:19:25] recommend anybody

[00:19:25] that finds himself

[00:19:26] in some position

[00:19:27] that I was in

[00:19:28] to seek that

[00:19:29] help,

[00:19:30] that level

[00:19:31] of help

[00:19:32] if they can.

[00:19:34] Yeah,

[00:19:35] yeah,

[00:19:35] he was wonderful.

[00:19:38] And I think

[00:19:39] for me,

[00:19:40] Valerie and Helen,

[00:19:41] it was,

[00:19:42] I mean,

[00:19:42] I remember

[00:19:43] I was working

[00:19:44] full-time

[00:19:44] at the time

[00:19:46] as a school counselor

[00:19:47] and I don't

[00:19:48] really remember

[00:19:49] I did what

[00:19:50] I had to do.

[00:19:52] You know,

[00:19:52] there were a couple

[00:19:53] nights

[00:19:54] that Malcolm

[00:19:55] called me

[00:19:56] in the middle

[00:19:57] of the night

[00:19:57] to come help

[00:19:59] and whether

[00:20:00] to stay

[00:20:01] with the kids

[00:20:01] or go

[00:20:02] just get Valerie

[00:20:03] and,

[00:20:05] you know,

[00:20:06] yeah,

[00:20:08] I,

[00:20:08] you know,

[00:20:09] just maybe

[00:20:10] was tired

[00:20:10] the next day

[00:20:11] at work

[00:20:11] but I don't

[00:20:13] really remember

[00:20:13] it being

[00:20:14] a major problem.

[00:20:16] I mean,

[00:20:16] it was just

[00:20:17] a huge part

[00:20:18] of my life

[00:20:18] and I

[00:20:20] wanted to be

[00:20:21] there

[00:20:21] for Malcolm

[00:20:22] and the kids

[00:20:24] and,

[00:20:25] you know,

[00:20:25] the best I could.

[00:20:27] Thank you.

[00:20:27] Yeah,

[00:20:28] you did a great job

[00:20:29] too,

[00:20:29] Bernette.

[00:20:30] Thank you.

[00:20:30] Thank you both

[00:20:31] for everything,

[00:20:34] you know.

[00:20:34] I mean,

[00:20:35] listening to you

[00:20:36] now,

[00:20:36] I think about,

[00:20:38] I mean,

[00:20:38] I've always

[00:20:39] known this.

[00:20:39] I mean,

[00:20:40] I know

[00:20:41] what all

[00:20:42] you sacrificed

[00:20:42] for me

[00:20:43] and I

[00:20:45] just,

[00:20:45] you know,

[00:20:46] like I say,

[00:20:47] you guys

[00:20:47] kept me alive.

[00:20:49] So,

[00:20:50] what

[00:20:52] did

[00:20:53] sustain you

[00:20:54] through all of this?

[00:20:55] I mean,

[00:20:55] you had each other

[00:20:56] but there must have

[00:20:58] been some things

[00:20:59] that you did

[00:20:59] to keep you going

[00:21:02] was it

[00:21:04] prioritizing

[00:21:06] sleep

[00:21:06] or

[00:21:07] did you ever

[00:21:08] have time

[00:21:09] to exercise?

[00:21:10] Was it reading?

[00:21:12] Was it

[00:21:13] some of your

[00:21:13] friends?

[00:21:14] You talked about

[00:21:15] therapy.

[00:21:16] Malcolm,

[00:21:17] I know your

[00:21:17] therapy helped

[00:21:18] you tremendously.

[00:21:19] What else?

[00:21:20] What was it

[00:21:21] that kept you

[00:21:23] going?

[00:21:23] I,

[00:21:24] as far as

[00:21:25] exercise,

[00:21:25] I do,

[00:21:26] you know,

[00:21:26] remember,

[00:21:27] I've always

[00:21:28] walked.

[00:21:29] I,

[00:21:29] you know,

[00:21:30] don't let

[00:21:31] hardly anything

[00:21:32] get in the way

[00:21:32] of that.

[00:21:33] You know,

[00:21:34] so I kept

[00:21:34] that going

[00:21:35] the best I

[00:21:35] could.

[00:21:36] That's always

[00:21:36] been a big,

[00:21:37] you know,

[00:21:38] a big help

[00:21:39] for me.

[00:21:42] Like I

[00:21:42] mentioned

[00:21:43] earlier,

[00:21:43] I did have

[00:21:44] a boyfriend

[00:21:45] at the time

[00:21:46] for a few

[00:21:46] of the years

[00:21:47] who was

[00:21:48] very understanding

[00:21:49] and supportive

[00:21:49] of what was

[00:21:50] going on

[00:21:50] to some

[00:21:51] degree.

[00:21:52] And I do

[00:21:53] remember being

[00:21:54] able to talk

[00:21:54] to him.

[00:21:55] And it was

[00:21:55] mainly just

[00:21:56] wanting to

[00:21:57] do what

[00:21:58] I could

[00:21:58] for Valerie

[00:22:00] and her

[00:22:00] family.

[00:22:01] And that

[00:22:01] was comforting

[00:22:03] to me.

[00:22:04] I wanted

[00:22:04] to be able

[00:22:05] to help.

[00:22:06] And the

[00:22:06] only way

[00:22:06] I could

[00:22:07] do that

[00:22:07] was to,

[00:22:08] you know,

[00:22:09] love the

[00:22:10] kids,

[00:22:11] care for

[00:22:11] the kids,

[00:22:12] be there

[00:22:13] for Malcolm.

[00:22:15] And in

[00:22:16] my own

[00:22:17] way,

[00:22:17] I felt

[00:22:18] that was

[00:22:18] helping Valerie

[00:22:19] because I

[00:22:20] knew I

[00:22:20] couldn't

[00:22:26] that I

[00:22:27] was able

[00:22:28] to be

[00:22:28] there for

[00:22:29] her family,

[00:22:30] I guess.

[00:22:31] And Malcolm,

[00:22:32] what about

[00:22:32] you?

[00:22:33] Relationships,

[00:22:34] activities,

[00:22:35] techniques,

[00:22:35] what helped

[00:22:36] support you?

[00:22:39] I don't

[00:22:39] really

[00:22:41] remember

[00:22:43] what I

[00:22:44] did physically

[00:22:44] or I'm

[00:22:47] sure that I

[00:22:47] continue to

[00:22:48] read because

[00:22:48] I read a

[00:22:49] lot and

[00:22:49] enjoy it.

[00:22:52] Just taking

[00:22:53] care of the

[00:22:54] kids.

[00:22:55] And they

[00:22:55] were

[00:22:56] not only

[00:22:57] was that

[00:22:58] a full-time

[00:23:00] job,

[00:23:01] but it

[00:23:01] was also

[00:23:03] rewarding.

[00:23:04] And I

[00:23:05] got a lot

[00:23:05] out of

[00:23:06] that,

[00:23:06] just seeing

[00:23:08] them get

[00:23:09] through this

[00:23:09] crisis and

[00:23:11] returning to

[00:23:13] doing all the

[00:23:13] things that

[00:23:14] they used to

[00:23:14] do.

[00:23:15] And there

[00:23:15] would be

[00:23:15] all sorts

[00:23:16] of school

[00:23:16] events that

[00:23:17] I went to

[00:23:17] and things

[00:23:18] like that,

[00:23:20] either sports

[00:23:21] or just

[00:23:22] at school

[00:23:23] stuff.

[00:23:26] just having

[00:23:28] the kids

[00:23:28] was in

[00:23:30] itself

[00:23:31] rewarding

[00:23:31] and

[00:23:33] helped me

[00:23:34] keep going

[00:23:35] forward.

[00:23:36] Did either

[00:23:38] one of you

[00:23:38] reach a

[00:23:39] point where

[00:23:40] you had

[00:23:40] really bad

[00:23:41] burnout?

[00:23:43] I think for

[00:23:44] most caregivers,

[00:23:45] it's almost

[00:23:45] something you

[00:23:45] need to watch

[00:23:46] out for,

[00:23:47] take care of

[00:23:47] yourself

[00:23:48] first if it

[00:23:49] gets to that

[00:23:49] point.

[00:23:51] Well,

[00:23:52] yeah,

[00:23:52] I remember

[00:23:54] going to

[00:23:55] my

[00:23:56] counselor

[00:23:57] and just

[00:23:59] expressing to

[00:24:00] them how

[00:24:01] what a

[00:24:02] difficult time

[00:24:03] I was having

[00:24:03] and feeling

[00:24:04] sorry for

[00:24:05] myself.

[00:24:07] And

[00:24:07] he would

[00:24:09] guide me

[00:24:09] back to

[00:24:11] what I was

[00:24:11] accomplishing

[00:24:12] in helping

[00:24:14] Valerie get

[00:24:15] back home

[00:24:15] and have

[00:24:16] her

[00:24:20] part of

[00:24:21] the family

[00:24:22] that she

[00:24:22] had been

[00:24:23] before she

[00:24:23] got ill.

[00:24:25] So,

[00:24:26] yeah,

[00:24:27] I highly

[00:24:28] recommend

[00:24:28] people find

[00:24:29] somebody that

[00:24:29] they can

[00:24:30] talk to.

[00:24:31] And it

[00:24:31] doesn't have

[00:24:31] to be a

[00:24:32] professional

[00:24:32] counselor.

[00:24:33] It can be

[00:24:33] a good

[00:24:34] family member

[00:24:35] that's got

[00:24:35] their head

[00:24:35] on their

[00:24:36] shoulders

[00:24:37] and that

[00:24:38] you trust.

[00:24:38] There was

[00:24:39] one point

[00:24:40] where I

[00:24:40] did tell

[00:24:41] Malcolm

[00:24:41] I needed

[00:24:42] a break

[00:24:42] and I

[00:24:43] needed to

[00:24:43] walk away.

[00:24:45] And it

[00:24:46] was very

[00:24:47] brief.

[00:24:47] It was

[00:24:48] maybe a

[00:24:48] week,

[00:24:49] but I

[00:24:50] just needed

[00:24:51] to regroup

[00:24:52] and get

[00:24:53] myself in

[00:24:53] a better

[00:24:53] place.

[00:24:54] I already

[00:24:55] said I

[00:24:55] think that's

[00:24:56] very important

[00:24:56] and if

[00:24:57] somebody

[00:24:57] realizes

[00:24:58] that's

[00:24:58] going on,

[00:25:00] you know,

[00:25:00] if you

[00:25:00] can do

[00:25:01] it,

[00:25:01] Malcolm

[00:25:03] couldn't

[00:25:03] have

[00:25:03] actually

[00:25:04] done that,

[00:25:05] walked away

[00:25:05] for a week

[00:25:06] because he

[00:25:07] had the

[00:25:08] time.

[00:25:10] or just

[00:25:11] even if

[00:25:11] it's a

[00:25:11] couple of

[00:25:12] hours,

[00:25:12] you know,

[00:25:13] that you

[00:25:13] need to

[00:25:13] take some

[00:25:15] time and

[00:25:15] do something

[00:25:16] completely

[00:25:17] different and

[00:25:17] not think

[00:25:18] about what's

[00:25:19] actually going

[00:25:19] on.

[00:25:20] If you

[00:25:21] need to

[00:25:22] do it,

[00:25:22] I think

[00:25:22] it's

[00:25:22] helpful and

[00:25:23] you should.

[00:25:25] I think

[00:25:26] that's great

[00:25:26] advice.

[00:25:27] I have

[00:25:30] another

[00:25:31] question that's

[00:25:32] I guess a

[00:25:32] little bit

[00:25:33] related to

[00:25:34] this,

[00:25:34] but as

[00:25:35] you guys

[00:25:35] look back

[00:25:36] on it,

[00:25:37] what was

[00:25:38] the

[00:25:38] biggest

[00:25:39] surprise

[00:25:39] and

[00:25:39] challenge

[00:25:40] for you

[00:25:40] as a

[00:25:41] caregiver?

[00:25:41] Is there

[00:25:42] something you

[00:25:42] can single

[00:25:43] out that

[00:25:44] you remember?

[00:25:45] The

[00:25:45] challenge

[00:25:46] for me

[00:25:46] was

[00:25:48] just

[00:25:49] trying to

[00:25:49] figure out

[00:25:50] how to

[00:25:50] help.

[00:25:52] It's so

[00:25:53] new to

[00:25:53] you,

[00:25:54] going back

[00:25:54] to one

[00:25:55] of your

[00:25:55] earlier

[00:25:55] questions,

[00:25:56] it's so

[00:25:56] new to

[00:25:56] you,

[00:25:56] you don't

[00:25:56] really know

[00:25:57] what to

[00:25:57] say.

[00:25:59] When you

[00:25:59] walk around

[00:26:00] on eggshells

[00:26:01] sometimes,

[00:26:02] because you

[00:26:03] don't know

[00:26:03] what to

[00:26:04] say,

[00:26:04] you're afraid

[00:26:04] you're going

[00:26:04] to say

[00:26:05] the wrong

[00:26:05] thing,

[00:26:07] that it's

[00:26:07] going to

[00:26:11] work in

[00:26:12] the reverse

[00:26:13] of your

[00:26:13] goal of

[00:26:14] trying to

[00:26:15] reach out

[00:26:16] and help.

[00:26:16] So,

[00:26:21] you just

[00:26:22] have to

[00:26:22] trust your

[00:26:23] instincts,

[00:26:23] you do the

[00:26:24] best you

[00:26:24] can,

[00:26:25] and if

[00:26:26] sometimes it

[00:26:26] doesn't work

[00:26:28] out well,

[00:26:28] you know,

[00:26:31] you try

[00:26:31] it,

[00:26:32] and you

[00:26:33] just keep

[00:26:33] on trying,

[00:26:34] and you'll

[00:26:36] get more

[00:26:36] good out

[00:26:37] of it than

[00:26:37] you will

[00:26:38] negative.

[00:26:38] So,

[00:26:39] yeah,

[00:26:40] that's

[00:26:40] what I

[00:26:42] did anyway.

[00:26:50] Bernadette,

[00:26:51] do you

[00:26:51] remember your

[00:26:51] biggest challenge?

[00:26:52] I remember

[00:26:53] when Valerie

[00:26:54] started getting

[00:26:55] better,

[00:26:56] it was

[00:26:57] very hard

[00:26:58] for me to

[00:26:59] believe that

[00:27:00] maybe the

[00:27:00] worst was

[00:27:01] over.

[00:27:03] I don't

[00:27:04] know if

[00:27:04] that was

[00:27:04] really a

[00:27:05] challenge.

[00:27:05] I mean,

[00:27:06] it was a

[00:27:06] good thing,

[00:27:07] but I

[00:27:07] do remember

[00:27:08] it was

[00:27:08] very hard

[00:27:09] for me

[00:27:10] to accept

[00:27:10] that maybe

[00:27:12] things are

[00:27:12] going to

[00:27:12] be okay.

[00:27:14] It did

[00:27:15] take quite

[00:27:16] a while,

[00:27:17] and I

[00:27:18] do remember

[00:27:19] going back

[00:27:20] to Al-Anon

[00:27:22] at that

[00:27:22] point,

[00:27:23] which,

[00:27:23] I don't

[00:27:23] know if

[00:27:24] I've

[00:27:24] told Valerie

[00:27:25] that,

[00:27:25] but I

[00:27:26] had gone

[00:27:27] to some

[00:27:28] meetings

[00:27:28] when things

[00:27:30] were pretty

[00:27:37] going to

[00:27:38] do.

[00:27:39] I

[00:27:40] went back

[00:27:40] because

[00:27:41] it was

[00:27:43] very

[00:27:44] difficult

[00:27:44] for me

[00:27:45] to believe

[00:27:45] that things

[00:27:46] were really

[00:27:48] going to be

[00:27:48] okay,

[00:27:49] and for me

[00:27:50] to trust

[00:27:50] that it

[00:27:52] wasn't going

[00:27:53] to go back

[00:27:53] to a crisis

[00:27:54] situation.

[00:27:57] The other

[00:27:58] thing was

[00:27:58] kind of my

[00:27:59] role in it

[00:27:59] at that

[00:28:00] point when she

[00:28:01] started getting

[00:28:01] better.

[00:28:02] it was

[00:28:02] like she

[00:28:02] doesn't

[00:28:03] need me

[00:28:03] in the

[00:28:03] same way

[00:28:04] that she

[00:28:04] did,

[00:28:07] and I

[00:28:08] need to

[00:28:08] back out

[00:28:09] a little

[00:28:09] bit,

[00:28:09] and I

[00:28:10] kind of

[00:28:11] remember

[00:28:11] talking

[00:28:11] about

[00:28:12] that

[00:28:13] just

[00:28:13] because

[00:28:14] I

[00:28:14] wasn't

[00:28:14] sure.

[00:28:17] I think

[00:28:17] that's

[00:28:18] really a

[00:28:19] big point

[00:28:20] for you

[00:28:21] to touch

[00:28:21] on,

[00:28:22] which is

[00:28:22] that it's

[00:28:24] not just

[00:28:24] the change

[00:28:25] in the

[00:28:25] person

[00:28:25] that has

[00:28:26] the

[00:28:26] illness,

[00:28:26] but the

[00:28:27] change

[00:28:27] in the

[00:28:27] caretaker

[00:28:28] too,

[00:28:28] over time,

[00:28:29] and how

[00:28:30] you ascertain,

[00:28:31] so what do

[00:28:32] I do now?

[00:28:33] That kind

[00:28:34] of thing.

[00:28:34] I think

[00:28:35] that's

[00:28:35] really

[00:28:35] important.

[00:28:38] We've

[00:28:38] kind of

[00:28:39] touched

[00:28:39] on this

[00:28:40] already,

[00:28:40] but your

[00:28:42] lives were

[00:28:43] disrupted

[00:28:43] in so

[00:28:44] many ways,

[00:28:45] and their

[00:28:46] professional,

[00:28:47] social,

[00:28:47] personal

[00:28:48] obligations,

[00:28:49] and your

[00:28:49] routines

[00:28:49] were disrupted

[00:28:50] by caring

[00:28:51] for a

[00:28:51] person with

[00:28:52] severe

[00:28:53] mental

[00:28:54] illnesses,

[00:28:57] and what

[00:28:59] did you

[00:28:59] miss most

[00:29:01] from your

[00:29:01] regular

[00:29:02] life?

[00:29:05] Yeah,

[00:29:06] I can

[00:29:06] answer that

[00:29:06] pretty quickly.

[00:29:08] I missed

[00:29:08] having Valerie

[00:29:10] as my

[00:29:10] sister and

[00:29:11] my friend.

[00:29:12] I mean,

[00:29:12] she wasn't

[00:29:14] there for

[00:29:14] me the

[00:29:15] way she

[00:29:15] always had

[00:29:16] been,

[00:29:17] and I

[00:29:18] missed that.

[00:29:19] It was

[00:29:20] hard.

[00:29:22] We had

[00:29:23] always been

[00:29:23] very supportive

[00:29:24] of each

[00:29:24] other.

[00:29:26] So,

[00:29:26] that's the

[00:29:27] first thing

[00:29:28] I can think

[00:29:28] of.

[00:29:29] I miss

[00:29:30] Valerie.

[00:29:30] she

[00:29:31] wasn't

[00:29:32] who she

[00:29:33] used to

[00:29:33] be.

[00:29:34] You're

[00:29:36] certainly

[00:29:36] right,

[00:29:36] Bernadette.

[00:29:37] That was

[00:29:38] hard.

[00:29:40] On my

[00:29:42] side,

[00:29:43] I lost

[00:29:45] all

[00:29:45] social

[00:29:47] contact

[00:29:47] with

[00:29:48] friends.

[00:29:49] friends.

[00:29:51] It was

[00:29:51] just,

[00:29:52] they

[00:29:52] probably

[00:29:52] just,

[00:29:53] in fact,

[00:29:53] I've had

[00:29:53] a couple

[00:29:54] of them

[00:29:54] say,

[00:29:54] you know,

[00:29:54] we just

[00:29:55] didn't

[00:29:55] realize this

[00:29:56] was going

[00:29:56] on,

[00:29:56] you never

[00:29:57] told us.

[00:29:58] And that

[00:29:59] was my

[00:30:00] fault for

[00:30:00] not trusting

[00:30:02] them enough

[00:30:03] at that

[00:30:04] time.

[00:30:06] and just

[00:30:07] wanting to

[00:30:08] not have

[00:30:09] social

[00:30:09] interactions.

[00:30:11] I just

[00:30:11] wanted to

[00:30:12] take care

[00:30:12] of Valerie

[00:30:13] and the

[00:30:13] kids.

[00:30:16] Business-wise,

[00:30:17] I tried to

[00:30:18] do as

[00:30:18] much as

[00:30:18] I could,

[00:30:19] but it

[00:30:20] was certainly

[00:30:20] secondary

[00:30:21] to my

[00:30:24] daily

[00:30:25] activities.

[00:30:26] So,

[00:30:27] yeah.

[00:30:28] I remember

[00:30:29] that too,

[00:30:30] Malcolm.

[00:30:30] Just looking

[00:30:31] back,

[00:30:32] I wish I

[00:30:32] had reached

[00:30:33] out more

[00:30:33] to friends

[00:30:34] and even

[00:30:35] some family

[00:30:36] members

[00:30:37] that I

[00:30:38] could have.

[00:30:39] I just

[00:30:39] felt like

[00:30:40] everyone's

[00:30:40] busy,

[00:30:42] they don't

[00:30:43] really

[00:30:43] understand.

[00:30:44] And they

[00:30:45] would have

[00:30:45] if I had

[00:30:46] reached out

[00:30:47] and said

[00:30:48] I need

[00:30:49] to talk

[00:30:49] here.

[00:30:52] So,

[00:30:52] looking back,

[00:30:53] I wish

[00:30:53] that I

[00:30:54] had done

[00:30:55] that more.

[00:30:58] It's not

[00:30:58] everyone you

[00:30:59] can talk

[00:30:59] to about

[00:31:00] it,

[00:31:00] but there

[00:31:00] were one

[00:31:00] or two

[00:31:01] people I

[00:31:02] could have

[00:31:02] leaned on

[00:31:03] a little

[00:31:04] bit more

[00:31:04] than I

[00:31:05] did.

[00:31:06] Yeah,

[00:31:07] I think

[00:31:07] it was

[00:31:08] wrong of

[00:31:09] me,

[00:31:09] even though

[00:31:09] it was

[00:31:10] 30 years

[00:31:10] ago and

[00:31:11] there was

[00:31:11] a lot of

[00:31:11] stigma going

[00:31:11] around,

[00:31:12] I should

[00:31:12] have trusted

[00:31:13] my friends

[00:31:13] more,

[00:31:15] especially

[00:31:16] some that

[00:31:17] have now

[00:31:17] that would

[00:31:18] have been

[00:31:19] very helpful.

[00:31:20] Yeah.

[00:31:21] And I think

[00:31:21] that's a good

[00:31:22] point,

[00:31:22] Malcolm.

[00:31:22] I've thought

[00:31:23] about that

[00:31:23] too.

[00:31:24] 30 years

[00:31:24] ago,

[00:31:26] mental health

[00:31:27] and substance

[00:31:27] abuse,

[00:31:28] I think,

[00:31:30] were looked

[00:31:30] at very

[00:31:31] differently

[00:31:31] than it is

[00:31:32] now.

[00:31:33] And I

[00:31:34] think that's

[00:31:35] some of

[00:31:35] the reason

[00:31:35] why I

[00:31:36] didn't lean

[00:31:37] on more

[00:31:38] people than

[00:31:38] I should

[00:31:39] have.

[00:31:41] I just

[00:31:41] felt like

[00:31:42] people don't

[00:31:42] understand it,

[00:31:43] they don't

[00:31:43] want to hear

[00:31:44] about it,

[00:31:45] whereas I

[00:31:46] hope,

[00:31:46] I do think

[00:31:47] that's very

[00:31:48] different now.

[00:31:49] Yeah,

[00:31:49] I think so

[00:31:50] too.

[00:31:51] So,

[00:31:52] well,

[00:31:53] Bernadette,

[00:31:53] you know,

[00:31:54] I call you

[00:31:56] Bea.

[00:31:57] I mean,

[00:31:58] thinking about

[00:31:58] what you

[00:31:58] said about

[00:32:00] not trusting,

[00:32:01] you know,

[00:32:01] that I was

[00:32:02] going to

[00:32:02] stay better

[00:32:03] because,

[00:32:04] you know,

[00:32:04] with the

[00:32:05] way it

[00:32:05] had gone,

[00:32:06] you know,

[00:32:06] one step

[00:32:07] forward and

[00:32:07] two steps

[00:32:08] back for a

[00:32:09] long time.

[00:32:10] I was

[00:32:10] thinking about,

[00:32:12] you know,

[00:32:12] how did you,

[00:32:13] both of you,

[00:32:14] know when you

[00:32:15] could let go of

[00:32:16] certain things you

[00:32:17] had been responsible

[00:32:18] for in relation

[00:32:19] to my care

[00:32:21] and trusting me?

[00:32:22] When did you

[00:32:23] know it was

[00:32:23] okay to let go

[00:32:24] of certain

[00:32:27] things like

[00:32:28] that I could

[00:32:29] begin to

[00:32:29] handle myself?

[00:32:30] I mean,

[00:32:31] you know,

[00:32:31] it was hard

[00:32:32] to trust my

[00:32:33] newfound

[00:32:33] strengths.

[00:32:35] How did you

[00:32:36] handle that?

[00:32:36] I think for me,

[00:32:37] Valerie,

[00:32:38] and I think

[00:32:38] I've said

[00:32:38] this a few

[00:32:39] times now,

[00:32:40] it really

[00:32:40] was just

[00:32:41] a matter

[00:32:41] of time.

[00:32:42] I don't

[00:32:43] remember

[00:32:44] anything

[00:32:46] specific as,

[00:32:47] you know,

[00:32:47] oh,

[00:32:47] she's okay

[00:32:48] now.

[00:32:48] I think

[00:32:49] it was just

[00:32:50] time for me

[00:32:51] that I had

[00:32:51] to see

[00:32:53] over and

[00:32:53] over

[00:32:54] that you

[00:32:55] were capable

[00:32:55] and you

[00:32:56] were able

[00:32:57] to do

[00:32:57] this and

[00:32:58] things were,

[00:32:59] you know,

[00:33:00] you were coming

[00:33:00] through,

[00:33:01] you were getting

[00:33:02] a job,

[00:33:02] you were holding

[00:33:03] a job,

[00:33:04] you know,

[00:33:04] and the kids

[00:33:05] were great

[00:33:07] and,

[00:33:07] you know,

[00:33:08] and things

[00:33:08] were okay

[00:33:09] and that's

[00:33:09] all I can

[00:33:10] think of

[00:33:10] is I just

[00:33:11] think it

[00:33:11] took time

[00:33:13] for me

[00:33:14] to convince

[00:33:15] myself

[00:33:15] that it

[00:33:17] really was

[00:33:17] and to

[00:33:18] trust,

[00:33:18] you know.

[00:33:19] And that's

[00:33:20] what it felt

[00:33:20] like for me

[00:33:20] that I just

[00:33:21] had to keep

[00:33:22] going,

[00:33:22] keep going

[00:33:23] and the people

[00:33:23] would trust

[00:33:24] me eventually

[00:33:24] and that

[00:33:25] seemed fair

[00:33:26] to me,

[00:33:27] you know.

[00:33:27] And I think

[00:33:28] that's what

[00:33:28] trust is,

[00:33:29] you know,

[00:33:30] it does

[00:33:30] take time.

[00:33:31] I tell

[00:33:31] students that

[00:33:32] all the time,

[00:33:32] you know,

[00:33:33] you don't

[00:33:34] gain someone's

[00:33:34] trust back

[00:33:35] overnight,

[00:33:36] you know,

[00:33:36] it could

[00:33:38] take a

[00:33:39] really long

[00:33:39] time and

[00:33:41] I think

[00:33:42] it did,

[00:33:42] I think

[00:33:42] it did

[00:33:43] for me.

[00:33:43] And for

[00:33:44] me to

[00:33:44] trust myself.

[00:33:45] Malcolm,

[00:33:46] what about

[00:33:46] you?

[00:33:47] Well,

[00:33:48] I was

[00:33:49] very watchful,

[00:33:51] I was

[00:33:52] very observant

[00:33:53] of the

[00:33:53] way you

[00:33:53] were

[00:33:54] interacting

[00:33:54] with me

[00:33:55] and the

[00:33:56] kids and

[00:33:59] over time

[00:34:00] you came

[00:34:01] back all

[00:34:02] the way.

[00:34:03] And I

[00:34:05] agree with

[00:34:05] Bernard,

[00:34:05] it just

[00:34:06] took time.

[00:34:09] but you

[00:34:10] did it

[00:34:10] and

[00:34:13] yeah,

[00:34:14] I

[00:34:16] think that

[00:34:17] I was

[00:34:18] wary

[00:34:19] and then

[00:34:20] you proved

[00:34:20] that there

[00:34:21] was nothing

[00:34:22] for me to

[00:34:23] worry

[00:34:23] about

[00:34:24] that you're

[00:34:25] good.

[00:34:27] And that

[00:34:28] just took

[00:34:29] time.

[00:34:29] I agree

[00:34:29] with Bernard

[00:34:30] on that.

[00:34:31] That certainly

[00:34:32] helped.

[00:34:33] And Helen,

[00:34:33] do you use

[00:34:34] one of your

[00:34:34] phrases?

[00:34:35] It was an

[00:34:35] Old Testament

[00:34:36] miracle.

[00:34:38] It was

[00:34:39] indeed.

[00:34:40] I am

[00:34:41] curious

[00:34:43] because

[00:34:45] we're all

[00:34:46] looking at

[00:34:47] such a

[00:34:47] long process

[00:34:49] for the

[00:34:49] three of

[00:34:50] you.

[00:34:51] And

[00:34:53] what were

[00:34:54] the turning

[00:34:54] points?

[00:34:55] You know,

[00:34:55] were there

[00:34:55] those moments

[00:34:56] large and

[00:34:57] small when

[00:34:57] all of a

[00:34:58] sudden you

[00:34:58] had real

[00:34:59] hope that

[00:35:01] things were

[00:35:01] turning around?

[00:35:05] I don't

[00:35:06] think it

[00:35:06] was anything

[00:35:07] really

[00:35:07] dramatic.

[00:35:09] I think

[00:35:09] one particular

[00:35:10] point,

[00:35:11] it was just

[00:35:12] the whole,

[00:35:13] I mean,

[00:35:14] the day-to-day,

[00:35:15] the week-to-week,

[00:35:16] the month-to-month,

[00:35:18] that it just,

[00:35:20] that Valerie

[00:35:21] just flowed back

[00:35:22] into our

[00:35:23] family.

[00:35:24] With the kids

[00:35:25] especially,

[00:35:26] you could just

[00:35:27] tell that they

[00:35:27] were so thrilled

[00:35:28] to have their

[00:35:29] mother back,

[00:35:30] and she was

[00:35:31] so thrilled

[00:35:32] to be with

[00:35:33] them.

[00:35:33] it made

[00:35:34] all the

[00:35:34] difference

[00:35:35] in the

[00:35:35] world,

[00:35:35] but it

[00:35:36] was not

[00:35:36] a,

[00:35:37] there was

[00:35:38] a little

[00:35:38] bit of

[00:35:39] anger still

[00:35:40] on my

[00:35:41] daughter's

[00:35:42] part that

[00:35:43] took a

[00:35:44] while for

[00:35:44] her to

[00:35:45] overcome,

[00:35:46] and Valerie

[00:35:47] worked through

[00:35:48] that.

[00:35:50] Nowadays,

[00:35:50] they talk just

[00:35:51] about every

[00:35:51] day on the

[00:35:52] phone.

[00:35:53] They sure do.

[00:35:55] And the kids

[00:35:56] talked about it,

[00:35:57] too.

[00:35:58] I think the

[00:35:59] same thing,

[00:36:00] Helen.

[00:36:00] I just

[00:36:00] can't think

[00:36:01] of one

[00:36:02] thing that

[00:36:03] made me

[00:36:03] feel like

[00:36:04] things are

[00:36:04] okay.

[00:36:05] It was more

[00:36:06] of a process.

[00:36:07] Well,

[00:36:08] it seems

[00:36:08] like,

[00:36:08] it's interesting

[00:36:09] because the

[00:36:10] three of you

[00:36:10] have both

[00:36:12] repeatedly

[00:36:12] mentioned

[00:36:13] trust,

[00:36:14] and it

[00:36:15] seems like

[00:36:16] that is

[00:36:17] something that

[00:36:17] you're saying

[00:36:18] was fundamental

[00:36:19] to the

[00:36:20] process of

[00:36:21] recovery,

[00:36:22] not just the

[00:36:23] treatment and

[00:36:24] the long

[00:36:24] process,

[00:36:25] but of

[00:36:25] recovery

[00:36:26] itself.

[00:36:27] Again,

[00:36:28] especially I

[00:36:29] think within

[00:36:29] a family,

[00:36:31] is rebuilding

[00:36:32] trust,

[00:36:33] and maybe

[00:36:34] trusting in

[00:36:34] ways you

[00:36:35] never trusted

[00:36:35] before.

[00:36:36] I think

[00:36:37] you're right.

[00:36:37] I really

[00:36:38] do.

[00:36:38] I think

[00:36:41] rebuilding the

[00:36:42] trust and

[00:36:43] feeling it

[00:36:46] is probably

[00:36:47] one of the

[00:36:48] foundations of

[00:36:49] recovery,

[00:36:49] because knowing

[00:36:50] that you're

[00:36:51] trusted again

[00:36:52] is such

[00:36:54] a self-esteem

[00:36:56] builder.

[00:36:57] Until I got

[00:36:58] the self-esteem

[00:36:59] back,

[00:37:00] I didn't

[00:37:00] really feel

[00:37:02] as though I

[00:37:02] could love

[00:37:03] myself enough

[00:37:04] to move

[00:37:05] on.

[00:37:05] Once I

[00:37:06] felt like

[00:37:06] my family

[00:37:07] trusted me,

[00:37:08] I felt like

[00:37:08] they,

[00:37:12] not that

[00:37:13] they hadn't

[00:37:13] always been

[00:37:13] there for

[00:37:14] me,

[00:37:14] but it

[00:37:14] was like,

[00:37:15] okay,

[00:37:15] I trust

[00:37:16] you that

[00:37:17] we're going

[00:37:17] to be

[00:37:17] together.

[00:37:19] We were

[00:37:19] on a

[00:37:19] completely

[00:37:20] different

[00:37:20] journey at

[00:37:21] that point.

[00:37:22] We weren't

[00:37:22] on a

[00:37:23] let's

[00:37:24] maintain

[00:37:25] journey.

[00:37:26] It was

[00:37:27] like,

[00:37:27] let's

[00:37:27] go fly

[00:37:28] together

[00:37:28] journey.

[00:37:33] One of the

[00:37:35] main reasons

[00:37:36] we wanted

[00:37:36] to do this

[00:37:37] episode with

[00:37:38] the two of

[00:37:38] you together,

[00:37:39] the caregiver

[00:37:39] episode,

[00:37:40] caregivers talk

[00:37:41] turkey to

[00:37:42] caregivers,

[00:37:42] caregivers,

[00:37:44] is because

[00:37:45] you have

[00:37:45] so much

[00:37:46] to give

[00:37:46] to others

[00:37:47] who are

[00:37:48] in this

[00:37:48] position.

[00:37:49] For a

[00:37:49] minute,

[00:37:50] what advice

[00:37:52] from your

[00:37:53] own experience,

[00:37:54] of course,

[00:37:55] can you

[00:37:55] give to

[00:37:56] a caregiver

[00:37:56] about how

[00:37:57] to provide

[00:37:58] children

[00:37:58] with comfort

[00:38:00] and understanding

[00:38:01] in the face

[00:38:02] of a

[00:38:03] relative

[00:38:04] going through,

[00:38:05] one of

[00:38:05] their

[00:38:05] relatives

[00:38:05] going through

[00:38:06] like what

[00:38:06] I went

[00:38:07] through?

[00:38:07] A lot

[00:38:09] of it

[00:38:09] depends on

[00:38:09] the age

[00:38:10] of the

[00:38:12] children

[00:38:12] or the

[00:38:13] age of

[00:38:13] the

[00:38:16] people

[00:38:17] you're

[00:38:17] trying to

[00:38:18] help.

[00:38:19] At that

[00:38:20] very young

[00:38:21] age,

[00:38:21] they wouldn't

[00:38:22] understand

[00:38:22] anything,

[00:38:23] I didn't

[00:38:24] think,

[00:38:24] about the

[00:38:25] mental

[00:38:25] health

[00:38:26] disease.

[00:38:29] What I

[00:38:30] tried to

[00:38:30] do is

[00:38:31] just give

[00:38:31] them

[00:38:33] hope

[00:38:33] that you

[00:38:35] were going

[00:38:35] to come

[00:38:36] back,

[00:38:37] that I

[00:38:38] was going

[00:38:39] to be

[00:38:39] there for

[00:38:40] them,

[00:38:40] that their

[00:38:42] aunt

[00:38:42] bee and

[00:38:44] their

[00:38:45] grandparents

[00:38:46] and all

[00:38:47] this,

[00:38:47] that there

[00:38:47] was a

[00:38:48] whole

[00:38:49] family

[00:38:49] behind

[00:38:52] helping

[00:38:53] them

[00:38:53] deal

[00:38:54] with the

[00:38:55] loss

[00:38:55] of their

[00:38:55] mother

[00:38:56] for some

[00:38:57] period

[00:38:58] of time.

[00:39:00] But if

[00:39:00] they're

[00:39:01] older,

[00:39:01] I would

[00:39:01] highly

[00:39:02] recommend

[00:39:02] that you

[00:39:03] tell them

[00:39:04] as much

[00:39:05] as you

[00:39:05] think

[00:39:05] that they

[00:39:06] would

[00:39:06] understand

[00:39:06] about

[00:39:07] mental

[00:39:07] illness,

[00:39:07] that this

[00:39:08] was prevalent

[00:39:09] in our

[00:39:09] society,

[00:39:10] that it's

[00:39:11] a disease,

[00:39:12] that it's

[00:39:12] curable,

[00:39:13] and those

[00:39:14] are,

[00:39:14] I think,

[00:39:14] being really

[00:39:15] honest with

[00:39:15] the kids

[00:39:17] or the

[00:39:18] person you're

[00:39:18] trying to

[00:39:20] help that are

[00:39:21] family members

[00:39:21] of the

[00:39:23] patient,

[00:39:25] to understand

[00:39:26] what's

[00:39:26] going on.

[00:39:28] And,

[00:39:29] yeah,

[00:39:30] and talking

[00:39:31] to the,

[00:39:33] I don't

[00:39:34] know about

[00:39:34] just the

[00:39:35] children,

[00:39:35] but the

[00:39:38] caregivers need

[00:39:39] to, I

[00:39:39] believe,

[00:39:40] talk to the

[00:39:40] professionals.

[00:39:41] They need

[00:39:43] access into

[00:39:44] the

[00:39:45] psychiatric

[00:39:47] help that

[00:39:47] your spouse

[00:39:49] or a

[00:39:50] friend or

[00:39:50] whatever is

[00:39:51] getting,

[00:39:52] so that

[00:39:53] they understand.

[00:39:54] If you have

[00:39:55] somebody that

[00:39:55] they make

[00:39:56] sure that

[00:39:56] you have

[00:39:56] a counselor

[00:39:57] or you

[00:39:57] have a

[00:39:58] psychiatrist

[00:39:58] that explain

[00:39:59] it to

[00:39:59] you so

[00:40:00] that you

[00:40:01] can explain

[00:40:01] it to

[00:40:02] your

[00:40:02] children

[00:40:02] or to

[00:40:03] your

[00:40:03] other

[00:40:03] family

[00:40:04] members.

[00:40:05] It seems

[00:40:06] like you're

[00:40:06] saying,

[00:40:07] and I know,

[00:40:07] Bernard,

[00:40:08] that this is

[00:40:08] your career,

[00:40:09] really,

[00:40:09] but that

[00:40:10] for the

[00:40:10] older

[00:40:12] children of

[00:40:13] someone who's

[00:40:13] ill,

[00:40:14] it's important

[00:40:14] for the

[00:40:15] family members

[00:40:17] to explain

[00:40:18] to each

[00:40:19] other,

[00:40:20] to teach,

[00:40:21] I guess,

[00:40:21] educate would

[00:40:22] be what it

[00:40:22] would be,

[00:40:22] to understand

[00:40:23] the illness

[00:40:24] so that it

[00:40:24] takes some

[00:40:25] of the,

[00:40:25] I think,

[00:40:26] the mystery

[00:40:26] and the

[00:40:26] stigma away

[00:40:27] from it.

[00:40:28] I think

[00:40:29] the more

[00:40:30] understanding,

[00:40:30] the better,

[00:40:31] you know,

[00:40:31] comprehension of

[00:40:32] what is going

[00:40:33] on with

[00:40:33] Valerie,

[00:40:34] you know.

[00:40:34] And respecting,

[00:40:35] like Malcolm

[00:40:35] said at the

[00:40:36] very beginning,

[00:40:37] the age of

[00:40:38] the kid,

[00:40:38] you know,

[00:40:39] of course,

[00:40:39] is huge.

[00:40:41] But yeah,

[00:40:41] if it's an

[00:40:48] degree that

[00:40:48] they can

[00:40:49] understand,

[00:40:49] but the

[00:40:50] other thing

[00:40:50] I wanted

[00:40:51] to add

[00:40:51] to that

[00:40:51] was trying

[00:40:54] to get

[00:40:54] them connected

[00:40:55] if they're

[00:40:55] receptive to

[00:40:57] maybe a

[00:40:58] group of

[00:40:59] other kids

[00:41:00] that are going

[00:41:00] through the

[00:41:01] same thing.

[00:41:02] For some

[00:41:03] kids,

[00:41:04] that can be

[00:41:04] very helpful

[00:41:05] to realize

[00:41:06] I'm not

[00:41:06] the only

[00:41:07] person this

[00:41:08] is happening

[00:41:08] to.

[00:41:09] And that

[00:41:10] might be

[00:41:11] with our

[00:41:11] teen.

[00:41:13] I'm sure

[00:41:14] there's lots

[00:41:14] of other

[00:41:15] groups out.

[00:41:16] Now,

[00:41:16] a lot of

[00:41:16] teens are not

[00:41:17] going to be

[00:41:18] receptive to

[00:41:19] that.

[00:41:19] And if

[00:41:20] they're not,

[00:41:20] they're not.

[00:41:21] But I would

[00:41:21] continue to

[00:41:22] encourage it

[00:41:23] and to

[00:41:24] offer it.

[00:41:27] And even

[00:41:28] at schools,

[00:41:29] some schools,

[00:41:31] maybe communities

[00:41:31] and schools

[00:41:32] may have

[00:41:32] groups for

[00:41:33] something like

[00:41:33] that with

[00:41:34] older students,

[00:41:35] not with

[00:41:36] younger kids.

[00:41:38] So I think

[00:41:39] that would be

[00:41:39] helpful if

[00:41:40] they're receptive

[00:41:40] to talking

[00:41:42] to other

[00:41:42] kids who

[00:41:43] might be

[00:41:44] going through

[00:41:44] the same

[00:41:45] thing,

[00:41:45] or teenagers.

[00:41:48] And the

[00:41:48] other thing

[00:41:49] I wanted

[00:41:49] to add

[00:41:49] just with

[00:41:50] the kids,

[00:41:50] like Malcolm

[00:41:50] said,

[00:41:51] yeah,

[00:41:51] if you need

[00:41:51] guidance from

[00:41:52] a professional

[00:41:53] on how to

[00:41:53] talk to your

[00:41:54] kids about it,

[00:41:55] get it,

[00:41:55] absolutely,

[00:41:56] you know,

[00:41:57] in whatever way

[00:41:58] you can.

[00:42:00] But as far

[00:42:01] as my

[00:42:02] interaction

[00:42:03] with the

[00:42:03] kids,

[00:42:04] it was,

[00:42:04] I think,

[00:42:05] just like

[00:42:07] we have

[00:42:07] already said,

[00:42:08] just being

[00:42:08] there,

[00:42:09] letting them

[00:42:10] know that

[00:42:10] you hear

[00:42:11] them,

[00:42:12] you're

[00:42:12] listening to

[00:42:13] them,

[00:42:13] you love

[00:42:13] them,

[00:42:16] and validate

[00:42:17] what they're

[00:42:17] feeling,

[00:42:18] what they're

[00:42:18] saying,

[00:42:20] you know,

[00:42:21] let them

[00:42:21] tell you

[00:42:22] what they're

[00:42:22] feeling,

[00:42:23] if they're

[00:42:24] able to,

[00:42:25] young kids

[00:42:25] may not

[00:42:26] even be

[00:42:26] able to.

[00:42:27] I remember

[00:42:28] one time

[00:42:29] one of

[00:42:30] Valerie's

[00:42:30] kids said,

[00:42:31] you don't

[00:42:31] know what

[00:42:31] it's like

[00:42:32] for your

[00:42:32] mom to

[00:42:33] be leaving,

[00:42:33] and this

[00:42:34] is when

[00:42:34] some of

[00:42:35] the anger

[00:42:36] did come

[00:42:36] up for

[00:42:36] the older

[00:42:37] one.

[00:42:38] And,

[00:42:38] you know,

[00:42:39] I said,

[00:42:40] you're right,

[00:42:41] I don't.

[00:42:42] I don't know

[00:42:43] what that

[00:42:43] feels like

[00:42:43] to have

[00:42:44] your mom

[00:42:44] going through

[00:42:45] this,

[00:42:46] but I do

[00:42:47] know what

[00:42:47] it feels

[00:42:47] like to

[00:42:47] have my

[00:42:48] sister going

[00:42:48] through it,

[00:42:49] and it does

[00:42:49] hurt,

[00:42:50] and it does

[00:42:50] hurt a lot,

[00:42:51] doesn't it?

[00:42:52] You know,

[00:42:52] and I think

[00:42:53] just meeting

[00:42:53] that kid

[00:42:54] where they

[00:42:54] are with

[00:42:55] whatever they're

[00:42:57] wondering about,

[00:42:59] you know,

[00:42:59] and I do

[00:43:00] remember checking

[00:43:00] with Malcolm

[00:43:01] sometimes.

[00:43:02] They asked

[00:43:03] very few

[00:43:03] questions,

[00:43:04] but if they

[00:43:04] did bring

[00:43:05] something up,

[00:43:06] I always wanted

[00:43:07] to be on the

[00:43:07] same page as

[00:43:08] Malcolm.

[00:43:09] I wanted to

[00:43:09] make sure I

[00:43:10] knew what he

[00:43:10] had shared

[00:43:11] with them

[00:43:11] or what he

[00:43:12] had not

[00:43:12] shared,

[00:43:13] and I think

[00:43:14] that consistency

[00:43:14] would be

[00:43:15] important for

[00:43:16] people to

[00:43:16] realize,

[00:43:17] especially with

[00:43:18] kids.

[00:43:19] Does that

[00:43:19] make sense?

[00:43:21] Oh, yes.

[00:43:22] Absolutely.

[00:43:23] Yeah.

[00:43:24] Yeah.

[00:43:24] You know,

[00:43:25] I mean,

[00:43:25] I didn't want

[00:43:27] to talk about

[00:43:29] something that

[00:43:29] Malcolm, you

[00:43:30] know,

[00:43:31] didn't think

[00:43:31] they were

[00:43:31] ready for

[00:43:32] or hadn't

[00:43:32] already let

[00:43:33] them know,

[00:43:34] so I think

[00:43:35] that would

[00:43:35] be important

[00:43:36] for the

[00:43:36] caregivers to

[00:43:37] communicate.

[00:43:39] I agree,

[00:43:40] yeah,

[00:43:40] and you did

[00:43:41] a good job

[00:43:42] of doing

[00:43:42] that,

[00:43:42] you did

[00:43:43] ask me,

[00:43:44] you know,

[00:43:44] what do

[00:43:45] they know

[00:43:45] about this?

[00:43:46] And,

[00:43:46] yeah,

[00:43:47] we try

[00:43:48] to stay

[00:43:49] on the same

[00:43:49] page.

[00:43:50] I think

[00:43:50] so.

[00:43:51] Same page

[00:43:52] with the

[00:43:52] kids would

[00:43:52] be very

[00:43:53] important at

[00:43:53] any age

[00:43:54] level.

[00:43:55] And I

[00:43:56] think that

[00:43:57] caregivers need

[00:43:58] to realize

[00:43:58] that they

[00:44:00] are doing

[00:44:00] something really

[00:44:01] good.

[00:44:02] They need to

[00:44:02] pat themselves

[00:44:03] on the back

[00:44:04] occasionally

[00:44:04] and say,

[00:44:05] hey,

[00:44:06] you know,

[00:44:07] it's hard,

[00:44:08] but this is

[00:44:10] something that

[00:44:10] needs to be

[00:44:11] done,

[00:44:12] and we're

[00:44:14] helping.

[00:44:15] Good point,

[00:44:16] Malcolm.

[00:44:16] Excellent point.

[00:44:17] It's a

[00:44:18] great point,

[00:44:19] and it

[00:44:19] actually

[00:44:20] leads to

[00:44:20] our final

[00:44:21] question

[00:44:24] for this

[00:44:24] episode,

[00:44:25] which is

[00:44:26] what you've

[00:44:27] kind of been

[00:44:28] doing throughout,

[00:44:28] but what

[00:44:30] words or

[00:44:32] strategies

[00:44:34] or anything

[00:44:35] would you

[00:44:36] recommend

[00:44:38] to bolster

[00:44:39] someone who

[00:44:40] is in the

[00:44:40] same boat

[00:44:41] today?

[00:44:41] You need

[00:44:42] to have

[00:44:43] a goal.

[00:44:44] For instance,

[00:44:45] my goal

[00:44:46] was to get

[00:44:46] Valerie

[00:44:47] back home

[00:44:48] again,

[00:44:49] and that

[00:44:49] was my

[00:44:50] focus.

[00:44:52] I thought

[00:44:53] about it

[00:44:53] every day

[00:44:54] that she

[00:44:55] was going

[00:44:56] through this

[00:44:56] mental illness,

[00:44:57] and I mean

[00:44:57] literally every

[00:44:58] day I

[00:45:01] had that

[00:45:02] goal and

[00:45:02] that I

[00:45:03] worked

[00:45:03] toward it,

[00:45:04] and you

[00:45:06] can't imagine

[00:45:07] how relieved

[00:45:08] I was when

[00:45:10] she showed

[00:45:11] so much

[00:45:11] progress and

[00:45:13] was welcomed

[00:45:14] back into

[00:45:14] the family

[00:45:15] again.

[00:45:16] So I

[00:45:17] think having

[00:45:17] a goal

[00:45:19] is very

[00:45:20] important.

[00:45:20] I think

[00:45:21] a lot of

[00:45:21] what we've

[00:45:22] already talked

[00:45:22] about,

[00:45:24] knowing who

[00:45:25] your support

[00:45:26] is and

[00:45:26] what your

[00:45:27] support is.

[00:45:29] Like I said,

[00:45:30] looking back,

[00:45:31] I wish I

[00:45:32] had reached

[00:45:32] out a little

[00:45:33] bit more

[00:45:33] and leaned

[00:45:34] on more

[00:45:35] people than

[00:45:37] just Malcolm.

[00:45:40] you may

[00:45:41] have to

[00:45:42] explore who

[00:45:43] are the

[00:45:43] people in

[00:45:44] my life,

[00:45:44] my circle,

[00:45:45] who I

[00:45:45] can trust

[00:45:46] and go

[00:45:46] to with

[00:45:46] this.

[00:45:47] You may

[00:45:48] have to

[00:45:48] dig deep

[00:45:49] and really

[00:45:49] figure that

[00:45:50] out.

[00:45:51] You may

[00:45:52] not have

[00:45:52] a lot

[00:45:52] of people,

[00:45:53] but just

[00:45:53] even one

[00:45:55] really strong

[00:45:55] person.

[00:45:56] And taking

[00:45:59] care of

[00:45:59] yourself.

[00:46:00] I really

[00:46:02] do think

[00:46:02] you've

[00:46:03] got to

[00:46:03] do what

[00:46:05] you need

[00:46:05] to do

[00:46:05] to be

[00:46:06] strong so

[00:46:07] you can

[00:46:10] care for

[00:46:11] whoever you're

[00:46:12] trying to

[00:46:12] take care of.

[00:46:13] It's important

[00:46:14] that you

[00:46:14] have the

[00:46:15] faith in

[00:46:18] yourself that

[00:46:19] you're going

[00:46:20] to succeed,

[00:46:20] that you're

[00:46:21] going to

[00:46:21] help that

[00:46:22] person out

[00:46:22] until they

[00:46:25] recover or

[00:46:26] at least

[00:46:26] start

[00:46:27] functioning

[00:46:28] much better

[00:46:29] than they

[00:46:30] were.

[00:46:31] You have

[00:46:31] to have

[00:46:32] that faith

[00:46:32] that this

[00:46:33] is going

[00:46:33] to work.

[00:46:34] And keep

[00:46:36] telling yourself

[00:46:37] that, yeah,

[00:46:38] they're going

[00:46:38] to come home.

[00:46:39] These words

[00:46:40] with such

[00:46:41] inspiration and

[00:46:42] hope bring

[00:46:43] today's topic

[00:46:44] to a beautiful

[00:46:45] close.

[00:46:46] We're so

[00:46:47] very grateful

[00:46:47] to our two

[00:46:48] caregivers,

[00:46:49] Bernadette and

[00:46:49] Malcolm,

[00:46:50] who brought

[00:46:51] caregiving to

[00:46:52] life with their

[00:46:53] candor and

[00:46:54] courage.

[00:46:55] And now

[00:46:56] Valerie will

[00:46:58] lead us in

[00:46:58] a mindfulness

[00:46:59] exercise,

[00:47:00] which I

[00:47:00] think we

[00:47:00] need today.

[00:47:01] Valerie?

[00:47:02] Yes, we

[00:47:04] will close

[00:47:04] today's episode

[00:47:05] in our

[00:47:06] traditional way

[00:47:07] with a

[00:47:07] mindfulness

[00:47:08] exercise.

[00:47:09] What is

[00:47:10] mindfulness?

[00:47:10] I always

[00:47:11] give a

[00:47:11] definition.

[00:47:12] Mindfulness

[00:47:13] is a

[00:47:13] mental state

[00:47:14] achieved by

[00:47:15] focusing one's

[00:47:16] awareness on

[00:47:17] the present

[00:47:17] moment while

[00:47:19] calmly acknowledging

[00:47:20] and accepting

[00:47:21] one's feelings,

[00:47:22] thoughts,

[00:47:23] and bodily

[00:47:23] sensations

[00:47:24] without

[00:47:25] judgment.

[00:47:27] Today's

[00:47:28] mindfulness

[00:47:29] practice is

[00:47:29] called

[00:47:30] Loving

[00:47:30] Kindness

[00:47:31] for

[00:47:32] Ourselves

[00:47:32] and

[00:47:32] Others.

[00:47:33] It is

[00:47:34] adapted from

[00:47:34] a meditation

[00:47:35] by John

[00:47:36] Kabat

[00:47:36] Zen.

[00:47:39] Loving

[00:47:40] kindness

[00:47:40] flowed

[00:47:41] through the

[00:47:41] words we

[00:47:41] have heard

[00:47:42] throughout

[00:47:42] today's

[00:47:43] episode,

[00:47:43] which I

[00:47:44] can't even

[00:47:44] say without

[00:47:44] tears.

[00:47:46] So it

[00:47:46] seems very

[00:47:47] appropriate

[00:47:47] for that

[00:47:49] loving

[00:47:50] kindness

[00:47:50] to be

[00:47:51] our

[00:47:51] mindfulness

[00:47:51] focus

[00:47:52] today.

[00:47:53] Let's

[00:47:54] do it.

[00:47:55] Let's

[00:47:56] get

[00:47:56] mindful.

[00:47:58] Close your

[00:47:59] eyes if

[00:48:00] you can.

[00:48:01] Settle

[00:48:01] in and

[00:48:02] breathe.

[00:48:03] As always,

[00:48:05] let's begin

[00:48:05] with a few

[00:48:06] diaphragmatic

[00:48:07] breaths.

[00:48:08] Whether your

[00:48:09] eyes are

[00:48:09] open or

[00:48:10] closed,

[00:48:11] let's

[00:48:11] steady our

[00:48:12] breathing

[00:48:12] with two

[00:48:13] diaphragmatic

[00:48:15] breaths.

[00:48:15] When you

[00:48:16] do this

[00:48:16] on your

[00:48:17] own,

[00:48:17] take as

[00:48:18] many breaths

[00:48:19] as you

[00:48:19] need to

[00:48:20] become

[00:48:20] calm and

[00:48:22] centered.

[00:48:23] Let's

[00:48:24] breathe.

[00:48:25] Inhale

[00:48:26] through your

[00:48:27] nose,

[00:48:28] expanding

[00:48:29] an imaginary

[00:48:29] balloon in

[00:48:30] your stomach

[00:48:31] as you

[00:48:31] inhale.

[00:48:32] Hold it

[00:48:33] for a

[00:48:34] second.

[00:48:35] Exhale

[00:48:36] through your

[00:48:36] mouth,

[00:48:37] pulling your

[00:48:38] stomach in

[00:48:38] as you

[00:48:39] do,

[00:48:40] forcefully

[00:48:41] exhaling.

[00:48:43] Again,

[00:48:44] inhale

[00:48:45] through your

[00:48:45] nose,

[00:48:47] expanding

[00:48:47] that imaginary

[00:48:48] balloon.

[00:48:50] Drop your

[00:48:51] shoulders,

[00:48:53] exhale

[00:48:53] through your

[00:48:54] mouth.

[00:48:55] Pull your

[00:48:55] stomach all

[00:48:57] the way

[00:48:58] in.

[00:49:00] Keep this

[00:49:02] slow,

[00:49:03] steady

[00:49:03] breath going.

[00:49:07] Bring to

[00:49:08] mind a

[00:49:09] person or

[00:49:10] maybe a

[00:49:10] pet you

[00:49:12] are happy

[00:49:12] to see

[00:49:13] and for

[00:49:14] whom you

[00:49:14] have deep

[00:49:15] feelings of

[00:49:16] love.

[00:49:19] Visualize

[00:49:20] this person

[00:49:21] or pet

[00:49:22] and notice

[00:49:23] the feelings

[00:49:24] you have

[00:49:25] for them

[00:49:25] as they

[00:49:26] arise in

[00:49:26] your body.

[00:49:28] it may

[00:49:29] be a

[00:49:29] smile that

[00:49:30] spreads across

[00:49:31] your face

[00:49:31] or a

[00:49:32] feeling of

[00:49:33] contentment.

[00:49:35] Whatever it

[00:49:36] is,

[00:49:37] visualize

[00:49:37] your loved

[00:49:38] one and

[00:49:40] allow

[00:49:40] yourself to

[00:49:41] feel what

[00:49:42] arises.

[00:49:43] Now let

[00:49:52] that

[00:49:52] visualization

[00:49:53] slip away

[00:49:55] and continue

[00:49:56] the awareness

[00:49:57] of the

[00:49:58] feelings that

[00:49:59] have arisen.

[00:50:01] offer

[00:50:02] these

[00:50:03] feelings of

[00:50:04] loving

[00:50:04] kindness

[00:50:05] you are

[00:50:07] feeling

[00:50:07] to

[00:50:08] yourself

[00:50:08] by letting

[00:50:10] these

[00:50:11] words become

[00:50:12] your words.

[00:50:14] May I

[00:50:14] be safe?

[00:50:16] May I

[00:50:17] be happy?

[00:50:18] May I

[00:50:19] be healthy?

[00:50:21] May I

[00:50:22] live in

[00:50:22] peace no

[00:50:24] matter what

[00:50:24] I am

[00:50:25] given?

[00:50:26] May my

[00:50:27] heart be

[00:50:27] filled with

[00:50:29] love and

[00:50:29] kindness.

[00:50:30] notice the

[00:50:35] feelings and

[00:50:36] sensations that

[00:50:37] arise and

[00:50:38] let them

[00:50:38] be.

[00:50:41] Now try

[00:50:42] offering the

[00:50:44] loving kindness

[00:50:45] you are

[00:50:45] feeling to

[00:50:46] someone who

[00:50:46] supports you.

[00:50:49] Bring that

[00:50:50] supportive

[00:50:50] person to

[00:50:51] mind and

[00:50:53] let these

[00:50:53] words for

[00:50:55] that person

[00:50:56] become your

[00:50:57] words.

[00:50:58] May you

[00:50:59] be safe.

[00:51:01] May you

[00:51:01] be happy.

[00:51:02] May you

[00:51:03] be healthy.

[00:51:05] May you

[00:51:06] live in

[00:51:06] peace no

[00:51:07] matter what

[00:51:08] you are

[00:51:08] given.

[00:51:09] May your

[00:51:10] heart be

[00:51:11] filled with

[00:51:11] love and

[00:51:11] kindness.

[00:51:17] Notice the

[00:51:18] feelings and

[00:51:19] sensations that

[00:51:19] arise.

[00:51:22] Once

[00:51:22] feelings for

[00:51:23] a loved

[00:51:23] one flow

[00:51:24] easily,

[00:51:25] turn your

[00:51:26] attention to

[00:51:26] someone with

[00:51:28] whom you

[00:51:28] have

[00:51:28] difficulty.

[00:51:30] Don't

[00:51:31] start with

[00:51:31] the most

[00:51:32] difficult

[00:51:32] person.

[00:51:33] Start with

[00:51:34] someone who

[00:51:34] brings up

[00:51:36] slight

[00:51:36] annoyance or

[00:51:37] irritation.

[00:51:38] attention.

[00:51:39] Now see

[00:51:40] if you

[00:51:40] can let

[00:51:40] these

[00:51:41] words become

[00:51:42] your words

[00:51:43] as you

[00:51:44] keep this

[00:51:45] person in

[00:51:45] awareness.

[00:51:48] May you

[00:51:48] be safe.

[00:51:49] May you

[00:51:50] be happy.

[00:51:51] May you

[00:51:52] be healthy.

[00:51:53] May you

[00:51:54] live in

[00:51:54] peace no

[00:51:56] matter what

[00:51:56] you are

[00:51:57] given.

[00:51:58] May your

[00:51:59] heart be

[00:51:59] filled with

[00:52:00] love and

[00:52:01] kindness.

[00:52:07] Notice the

[00:52:08] feelings and

[00:52:08] sensations that

[00:52:09] arise and

[00:52:11] see if you

[00:52:12] can just

[00:52:12] allow them

[00:52:13] and let

[00:52:13] them be.

[00:52:14] Now bring

[00:52:20] to mind

[00:52:21] the broader

[00:52:22] community of

[00:52:23] which you

[00:52:24] are part.

[00:52:25] Imagine your

[00:52:26] family, your

[00:52:27] colleagues, your

[00:52:29] neighbors.

[00:52:31] Fan out your

[00:52:32] attention until

[00:52:33] you include

[00:52:33] yourself in

[00:52:35] this offer of

[00:52:35] love and

[00:52:36] kindness and

[00:52:38] let these

[00:52:39] words become

[00:52:40] your words

[00:52:41] for your

[00:52:42] broader

[00:52:43] community.

[00:52:44] May we be

[00:52:46] safe.

[00:52:46] May we be

[00:52:47] happy.

[00:52:48] May we be

[00:52:49] healthy.

[00:52:50] May we

[00:52:51] live in

[00:52:51] peace no

[00:52:52] matter what

[00:52:53] we are

[00:52:53] given.

[00:52:54] May our

[00:52:55] hearts be

[00:52:55] filled with

[00:52:56] love and

[00:52:57] kindness.

[00:53:00] Notice the

[00:53:01] sensations and

[00:53:02] feelings that

[00:53:02] arise within

[00:53:03] you.

[00:53:05] Sit with

[00:53:06] them for a

[00:53:07] moment.

[00:53:13] Soak in

[00:53:14] these feelings

[00:53:14] of love

[00:53:16] and kindness.

[00:53:29] If your

[00:53:30] eyes are

[00:53:30] closed,

[00:53:31] please open

[00:53:32] them and

[00:53:33] gently bring

[00:53:33] yourself back

[00:53:34] to the room.

[00:53:38] Thank you

[00:53:39] for doing this

[00:53:40] mindfulness

[00:53:45] and I

[00:53:46] realize that

[00:53:48] I have

[00:53:48] not taken

[00:53:49] the opportunity

[00:53:49] to thank

[00:53:51] you for

[00:53:52] these first

[00:53:53] two episodes

[00:53:53] in our

[00:53:54] family series.

[00:53:55] I am

[00:53:58] astonished by

[00:53:59] your ability

[00:54:00] to share

[00:54:01] two of the

[00:54:02] most important

[00:54:03] people in

[00:54:03] your life

[00:54:04] and also

[00:54:05] yourself

[00:54:06] with us

[00:54:08] and with

[00:54:09] our

[00:54:10] listeners

[00:54:10] to such

[00:54:11] good

[00:54:11] purpose.

[00:54:12] It's

[00:54:13] extremely

[00:54:13] generous

[00:54:14] and

[00:54:14] extremely