Thriving in Mental Health Recovery

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[00:01:04] Welcome to our award-winning podcast, Mental Health, Hope and Recovery.

[00:01:25] I'm Helen Snead and I'm Valerie Milburn.

[00:01:30] We both have fought and overcome severe chronic mental illnesses.

[00:01:35] Our podcast offers a unique approach to mental health conditions.

[00:01:39] We use practical skills and inspirational true stories of recovery.

[00:01:44] Our knowledge is up close and personal.

[00:01:48] Helen and I are your peers.

[00:01:50] We're not doctors, therapists or social workers.

[00:01:53] We're not professionals but we are experts.

[00:01:56] We are experts in our own lived experience with multiple mental health diagnoses and

[00:02:02] symptoms.

[00:02:03] Please join us on our journey.

[00:02:06] We live in recovery.

[00:02:08] How can you?

[00:02:10] This podcast does not provide medical advice.

[00:02:13] The information presented is not intended to be a substitute for or relied upon as medical

[00:02:18] advice, diagnosis or treatment.

[00:02:21] The podcast is for informational purposes only.

[00:02:25] Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health providers with any

[00:02:30] health-related questions you may have.

[00:02:40] Welcome to Episode 41, Thriving and Recovery.

[00:02:45] Is it possible to thrive after mental illness?

[00:02:49] This episode was born by accident.

[00:02:53] I think we can say this, Valerie, while doing some research, I stumbled across this Canadian

[00:02:58] study on thriving in the aftermath of mental illness and that it was possible.

[00:03:03] Valerie, you and I were intrigued and really kind of galvanized.

[00:03:08] For me, I began to wonder if I was thriving and I was almost afraid to ask.

[00:03:15] I felt kind of sheepish and I thought, well gosh, I'm going to sound so arrogant if I

[00:03:18] go around saying, oh, well I'm thriving.

[00:03:21] So I kind of almost backed away from it.

[00:03:24] Valerie, what was it like for you?

[00:03:26] Well, it was really interesting because as you were stumbling across the Canadian

[00:03:30] study, I was stumbling across a really great book called From Surviving to Thriving

[00:03:37] and I'll talk more about that book in a bit.

[00:03:40] But you said it led us to ask ourselves, are we thriving?

[00:03:45] And I am indeed thriving.

[00:03:47] I also had a journey in thinking about that but it also led us to ask others if they

[00:03:54] were thriving.

[00:03:55] And three voices came to mind immediately.

[00:03:58] Three people came to mind more than three but we asked three particular voices to join

[00:04:03] us for this episode, vibrant, thriving voices and we'll hear their perspectives on what

[00:04:09] thriving means to them.

[00:04:11] We will learn what gave them the belief during their darkest times that they could thrive.

[00:04:17] We'll learn how they handle their setbacks and about their own struggles and skills

[00:04:22] for flourishing.

[00:04:24] Sharing their thoughts with us today are Kaelin, Kelly Reed and Karen Reynas.

[00:04:31] Let me give you a quick introduction of Kaelin, Kelly and Karen.

[00:04:35] I met Kaelin when she was five years old and watched her blossom through high school

[00:04:41] and our paths diverged when she went off to college but unbeknownst to each other we

[00:04:47] each had a deep dive with our mental health.

[00:04:51] We reconnected in the world of recovery and I'm honored that Kaelin is sharing

[00:04:57] with us the thriving life she's living today.

[00:05:01] Now Kelly Reed is my dear, dear friend.

[00:05:04] We met in 2006, 2007 in a support community for those with the mental health condition

[00:05:09] and a substance use disorder.

[00:05:12] We have shared a life of recovery ever since.

[00:05:14] Kelly inspires me with how she thrives by living her life in gratitude, service and

[00:05:20] spirituality.

[00:05:22] Karen Reynas has a long history as a professional in the mental health field as a mental

[00:05:27] health strategist, trainer, presenter and innovator.

[00:05:32] In these capacities she's been a support to many on their journey in thriving.

[00:05:36] Karen has been instrumental in the success of this podcast as she has supported us

[00:05:42] in so many ways.

[00:05:45] Karen has the blessing of a daughter who lives a life of thriving with the mental health

[00:05:49] condition and we are so appreciative that the three of them have shared their time,

[00:05:54] their wisdom and experiences with us.

[00:05:58] Yes they've been just incredibly generous and of course brilliant and insightful.

[00:06:03] Now some people may not be able to hear about thriving or to see it for themselves

[00:06:10] depending on where they are in their journey and we both have been there

[00:06:14] and know full well the feeling of despair and memories of how impossible it seemed.

[00:06:21] However, we want to present the concept of thriving as something achievable, a worthy goal.

[00:06:28] I mean thriving is as individual as every person who's fought for survival,

[00:06:33] recovery and a life worth living.

[00:06:37] So let me share one individual's definition of thriving.

[00:06:41] Here's Karen.

[00:06:42] First of all I just want to say how much I love that you're using this word thriving.

[00:06:46] I love the word because I think it's such a powerful one in terms of I think of thriving

[00:06:52] and I just think of growth and this sense of to me thriving is so much about being

[00:07:01] completely in this place of embracing who you are.

[00:07:04] When I think of people who are thriving that's what I tend to see is people who are at that place

[00:07:10] where there is this fullness in their understanding of who they are

[00:07:15] and a valuing of it and a protection of it that I think is critically important.

[00:07:21] And so that's I think to me what it means to be thriving is to be fully who you are and embracing that.

[00:07:29] Let's start with the four stages of mental illness. Crisis, struggle, surviving and thriving.

[00:07:39] In other episodes we focused a great deal on the first three.

[00:07:43] Today we examine the holy grail of recovery thriving.

[00:07:48] Well first off what exactly do we mean by thriving?

[00:07:52] Well the World Health Organization defines health as a complete physical, mental and social well-being

[00:08:00] and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity.

[00:08:05] It goes on to say mental health is not merely the absence of mental illnesses

[00:08:10] but also the presence of psychological thriving.

[00:08:15] And here's the definition of survive which is what we can put up against these definitions

[00:08:23] of thrive and see the difference of where we have been and where we had and survive definition

[00:08:31] is continue to live or exist especially in spite of danger or hardship and I was there

[00:08:38] for a long time just living and existing and now the definition of thrive one that I love is prosper

[00:08:46] flourish. Now let's hear Kailans and then Kelly's definitions of thriving.

[00:08:52] I think to me thriving is really being present, being able to experience joy

[00:09:01] but also being able to experience pain and challenge even while also knowing that those things are temporary.

[00:09:14] So being able to kind of be present with all of it and not seek

[00:09:23] disconnection from the difficult things while also being able to experience the positive

[00:09:29] moments that much more fully. My definition of thriving is living beyond just surviving

[00:09:36] that for me is living a healthy way within my values so I'd like to think of it as something

[00:09:45] really extraordinary but for me it's really accepting life as it is and being content.

[00:09:50] All right now let's look at the phenomenal Canadian study on thriving

[00:09:55] that has had such an impact on both of us. Valerie?

[00:09:59] Yes the 2020-12 Canadian Community Health Study is the seminal survey on thriving with the mental

[00:10:06] health condition. This study showed that contrary to traditional clinical wisdom mental health

[00:10:12] conditions may reduce but do not prevent the possibility of thriving. In fact the

[00:10:19] lead author of the research article said and I quote many people can recover from mental illness

[00:10:26] and go on to experience a life with high levels of well-being and functioning.

[00:10:35] Karen commented on something very important to well-being and functioning that I want to share.

[00:10:41] I firmly believe that when we are really hard on ourselves and we don't really root ourselves in

[00:10:49] self-compassion we can be so kind and caring and gentle and supportive of other people and yet so

[00:10:57] often we fail to do that for ourselves to be as kind and gentle and nourishing nurturing to

[00:11:04] ourselves as we are to others. I think it's so important if we want to aspire to that thriving

[00:11:10] place we can't expect others to be gentle and compassionate and empathetic to us

[00:11:19] if we're not modeling what that looks like for ourselves.

[00:11:23] Yes being kind and gentle and nurturing to ourselves is definitely part of positive emotions

[00:11:29] and positive emotions is one of the criteria this research study used as a criteria for thriving.

[00:11:38] So here's the scoop on the research study. There were 25,000 Canadians aged 15 to 80 included in

[00:11:46] this study and their criteria for thriving included positive emotions which I just mentioned

[00:11:54] also social relationships and the ability to fulfill life roles. The researchers said a really

[00:12:01] high bar for self-defining is thriving. Those with the mental health condition had to meet

[00:12:08] or exceed the level of well-being met by the top 25 percent of the normative sample

[00:12:14] in order to self-define as thriving and yet even with that high bar 10% of those with

[00:12:21] mental health conditions defined themselves as thriving and in comparison 24% of those without

[00:12:29] a mental health issue defined themselves as thriving. So that's 10% with the mental health

[00:12:35] condition defined themselves as thriving and 24% of those without a mental health condition

[00:12:41] defined themselves as thriving. Now here's some information on thriving statistics per illness

[00:12:48] 10% of those with substance use disorders defined themselves as thriving 7% who live

[00:12:54] with depression do so 6% who live with anxiety do so and 3% of those with bipolar disorder

[00:13:01] defined themselves as thriving. Here's one last thing about this study. The researchers found that

[00:13:08] even having longer episodes of mental illness or experiencing multiple mental illnesses in

[00:13:14] one's lifetime reduces but does not eliminate the chances of thriving and Helen you and I are proof of

[00:13:23] that. You know we we are indeed and I am so it just makes me happy to see it in writing.

[00:13:30] Yes and you know I mentioned that this study's high bar for thriving made me think about

[00:13:37] you know that comparison but it made me think about what Kelly said. Well I used to think that

[00:13:43] like happiness was the was the norm like that's what I was going for with my mental illness. I

[00:13:50] thought that was like super happiness was baseline and I remember when I got to the point where I

[00:13:54] thought oh actually contentment is a healthy baseline for me. I love that contentment

[00:14:03] thriving just beautiful. Now Helen you delved into the follow-up research on this Canadian

[00:14:10] study I just shared and it's so interesting tell us about the follow-up study please.

[00:14:17] Well Valerie the great irony is that the Canadian study that galvanized us

[00:14:22] really just kind of languished for the next 10 years and then it was revisited by Dr. Andrew

[00:14:29] Davendorf of the University of Southern Florida at the Mood and Emotion Lab where the study of

[00:14:35] thriving is well thriving. It took a professional with vision and belief to focus on the concept of

[00:14:43] thriving. Now his work resulted in a groundbreaking article from April 2022 the Association for

[00:14:51] Psychological Science and for the first time the article and its outcomes were picked up by

[00:14:58] numerous publications and began to be embraced by many in the field. Now Dr. Davendorf and his

[00:15:06] colleagues are researching and establishing some new exciting approaches to mental health treatment

[00:15:12] that can help steer a patient towards thriving. Traditionally mental health fields have invested

[00:15:19] their energy in tracking symptoms or disorders as endpoints of research and treatment you know

[00:15:24] that was it. The professionals have focused on treatments that reduce symptoms rather than the

[00:15:31] extent to which therapy and treatment methods can lead to a state of well-being which is thriving.

[00:15:37] The absence of symptoms does not equal the presence of good functioning

[00:15:43] and now that we know thriving is possible after mental illness we hope that researchers will

[00:15:48] begin to investigate how existing treatments can increase the chance for thriving after

[00:15:53] mental illness. Dr. Davendorf has stated reading oneself of anxiety is not the same as creating

[00:16:01] joy meaning and satisfaction with life. Now Karen shared an anecdote from an outing with her

[00:16:09] daughter that illustrates this beautifully. When I think back to 13 years ago when my

[00:16:14] daughter was first in crisis and days when I thought she would never really be okay

[00:16:20] and it was heartbreaking to me and to see her now we went to a play I could hear her laughing

[00:16:28] and it's still even to this day in this many years her laughter that belly laughter that is

[00:16:34] so authentic and beautiful will just brighten me because I just think about that those

[00:16:39] really difficult times when she was in that dark place and there wasn't any authentic laughter

[00:16:47] or light in her life I can practically hear that belly laugh can't you yes I can so how do they

[00:16:56] measure thriving well number one it has to be psychological a sense of well-being overall

[00:17:04] life satisfaction self-acceptance a sense of purpose and positive relationships

[00:17:11] and then secondly they set something called the thriving standard they calculated the norms

[00:17:18] of well-being among people who did not experience mental illness and then they assessed how many

[00:17:24] people with a history of mental illness met those same criteria and for mentally challenged

[00:17:30] people they had to be no longer diagnosable and meet or exceed the level of well-being met by

[00:17:36] the top 25 percent of the normative sample so the outcome was 10 percent of those with depression

[00:17:45] met the standard of thriving 21 percent of those with no depression met the standard so

[00:17:53] that shows that 10 years later the 21 percent outcome was even lower than the Canadian statistics

[00:17:59] from that study now survey data shows patient groups value the presence of elements of well-being

[00:18:09] as much or more than the absence of symptoms so what's needed is a more expansive treatment approach

[00:18:15] that will focus on the severity of mental illness and possible relapse yes but also focuses on the

[00:18:22] possibility of recovery and thriving thriving is different for different people and the individual

[00:18:30] can best define the components of life that create an ongoing sense of well-being for him

[00:18:35] or her dr. Davendorce research is examining the multiple pathways to wellness which is creases

[00:18:42] the odds for thriving there is more than one pathway now some are fixed such as financial

[00:18:48] status or genetic makeup but others are within human control such as habits routine self-regulation

[00:18:56] skills Kelly told us about a part of her wellness pathway the importance of sleep I have some

[00:19:05] parameters set around my mental health with my doctor if I don't sleep more than five hours

[00:19:11] three days in a row then I might get symptomatic and that might actually be a symptom of my

[00:19:17] mental illness having an episode so um that's a guideline for me you know the things you

[00:19:23] just talked about Helen that patient groups value the presence of elements of well-being as

[00:19:31] much or more than the absence of symptoms well yeah um we want a life bigger than just not

[00:19:39] being symptomatic and I'm very glad and it's so encouraging that the research shows this but

[00:19:47] duh

[00:19:51] we've known this that we want a big life that we want a thriving life and and it's very

[00:19:57] validating that they've you know proved this proven this in the lab that's the name of the

[00:20:04] you know the department at the university that did this research the emotions lab so

[00:20:09] it's very encouraging that the treatment world is going to look for treatment plans that lead to

[00:20:19] this bigger sense of recovery I'm laughing but I'm serious it's very encouraging work

[00:20:26] one of the statistics I gave earlier was that the was of the different statistics for

[00:20:34] thriving from the different types of disorders and the one for bipolar disorder was pretty low

[00:20:40] only three percent of people with bipolar disorder self-defined is thriving so I wanted to give some

[00:20:46] quotes from an article called thriving with bipolar disorder from the NAMI national magazine

[00:20:53] the advocate and thriving with bipolar disorder is a wonderful article title and these are some

[00:21:00] things the author of the article had to say about her life and I'm going to quote directly from the

[00:21:09] article she said people with bipolar disorder have to pick themselves up again and again

[00:21:17] sometimes you start from scratch you have to be willing and invested in mining your goodness

[00:21:23] and finding faith over and over I've dusted myself off many times she said I know failure really well

[00:21:33] no matter how many times I nearly disintegrate swing too high or too low my soul awaits for me

[00:21:43] it is whole and healthy and it is a tremendous friend this illness will never diminish it

[00:21:52] or steal my essence you have no idea how grateful I am there it is that word grateful and I think

[00:22:02] this is so profoundly beautiful especially the for me this illness will never diminish it or

[00:22:10] steal my essence because that is I would go to that horrible place and think that I had the

[00:22:18] illness had completely robbed me of everything positive so these are beautiful words and there's

[00:22:24] one more source of of early validation and it comes from nurses who are always you know no more

[00:22:33] about this than anyone else and it's from mental health nursing magazine from 2012 way back

[00:22:41] mental health nursing is focused on patients moving along the continuum between failing

[00:22:47] and thriving in terms of emotional functioning this differs dramatically from the medical model

[00:22:55] of disease and cure nursing encourages more research into this mode of focus and treatment

[00:23:03] and they also said many nursing theorists have directly and indirectly identified the

[00:23:09] importance of the patients will to thrive will to thrive which to me just speaks volumes it's

[00:23:16] particular emphasis on the importance of patient responsibility that is identified as vital to the

[00:23:23] process of two true change now kalen gave a beautiful example of the will to thrive

[00:23:34] I was like sitting on the back porch just like noticed a blue jay and I like looked up

[00:23:41] the symbolism of blue jays and just how they're so resourceful and they like set good boundaries

[00:23:49] and they really take care of themselves and I don't know I just had this moment where I was

[00:23:56] I just knew that even though I was going through the hardest most traumatic thing I

[00:24:04] probably ever been through I knew that I was going to be okay and I knew that

[00:24:10] like things were going to be really really beautiful on the other side

[00:24:16] and that kept me going even when it was really hard

[00:24:21] that's such a beautiful vision of kalen sitting on the back porch I love that

[00:24:27] will to thrive so here's the book I mentioned earlier from survive to thrive living your best

[00:24:36] life with mental illness and it's by dr margaret chism and she is with the department of psychiatry

[00:24:43] and behavioral sciences at the johns hopkins university school of medicine and what really

[00:24:49] got my attention is the johns hopkins model to therapy it's called the bio psychosocial model

[00:24:58] and this bio psychosocial model diverges from traditional psychiatry's heavy reliance on the

[00:25:05] dsm that's the diagnostic statistical manual of mental disorders it's the by the bible of

[00:25:12] psychiatry in diagnosis and the dsm lists criteria and symptoms for making a diagnosis

[00:25:20] the bio psychosocial model encompasses the full person it believes the dsm overlooks

[00:25:27] it believes that a person's full story is revealed by examining four perspectives and

[00:25:32] these perspectives are life story dimensions of personality behavior patterns and by the

[00:25:39] perspective of mental health as understood through a matter of brain and body health

[00:25:49] this model is the belief that people with mental health conditions cannot be reduced

[00:25:55] to diseased brains or imbalanced chemical profiles rather they are individuals whose

[00:26:03] unique life story and personality are paramount to understanding their challenges

[00:26:10] you know i valer i used to say to a one doctor in particular you know i would say look i am not

[00:26:16] just a bag of symptoms i am a full human being you know trying to get that across

[00:26:25] and it was it was it was such a it was so dispiriting you know to to be looked at that

[00:26:30] way i loved what i learned in that book the other thing i learned in that book are the four pathways

[00:26:36] to flourishing that um are something you and i talk about all the time helen we talk about

[00:26:45] family work education and community and i didn't want to talk about i loved their definition

[00:26:52] of flourishing a bold or extravagant gesture and then a musical fanfare of trumpets a musical

[00:27:01] fanfare of trumpets is a flourish and i loved that they use those as definitions of flourishing

[00:27:07] well i would like for the trumpets to come just directly ahead of me as i enter a room

[00:27:12] but i'm probably not going to get my way now valer you talked about um uh professionals

[00:27:19] emphasizing the importance of community and how vital that is and both kailyn and kelly

[00:27:25] really rely on community as essential in their lives so um let's hear what kelly and then

[00:27:31] kailyn have to share so find a community of like-minded people or like diagnosed people or

[00:27:40] just um find a community community support is like number one for me so um

[00:27:49] you know 12-step programs um have been again that's like my my foundation i feel like

[00:28:05] now the book that i would like to talk about is called a guide to thriving with mental illness

[00:28:10] by mcquell w buck the author is a survivor who's thriving and through telling her personal

[00:28:17] story buck strongly advises certain attitudes and actions that helped her she's very forthright

[00:28:25] and to begin with take responsibility as best you can learn to regard mental illness as a part

[00:28:32] of your life but no longer the defining and controlling component of your existence now

[00:28:39] karen has given an excellent example of that i see it in my own daughter who for a long time battled

[00:28:47] that i don't want to be that depressed person or that anxious person that's not who i want to be

[00:28:54] and it's so different than where she is now where it's like this is a part of who i am

[00:28:59] and um it doesn't define me and i get to be all of these other things and i think i see her in

[00:29:07] her best self today because she has accepted this is just one aspect of me that i have to

[00:29:15] manage well and part of what has helped accelerate that thriving has been her fully exploring and

[00:29:22] what are those things that are unique to me that i have to do in order to be able to thrive

[00:29:27] another action that mcquell buck advises in her book is and this is kind of the essence of it all

[00:29:33] education is empowering learn to manage through knowledge as much as you can about the illness

[00:29:41] understand your symptoms medications participate fully in therapy ask many questions become an

[00:29:48] expert on your own illness you know education was so empowering for me when i first was diagnosed

[00:29:56] with bipolar disorder i was really fighting to accept that and my psychiatrist said you have

[00:30:02] a journalism degree you know how to do research go do some research and i did and i got educated

[00:30:08] and i understood my symptoms just like you said i learned about medications and i really became an

[00:30:15] expert in bipolar disorder and it helped me so much well didn't you say that that helped you

[00:30:23] most of all with acceptance that you did have an illness it did because i saw that i had a disease

[00:30:29] called bipolar disorder and that i had symptoms that could be controlled through medication through

[00:30:36] lifestyle changes through work not you know through therapy through everything i could do

[00:30:44] i could bring my disease under control i mean if i had high blood pressure and took a high blood

[00:30:48] pressure medication my blood pressure would stabilize well there's a treatment plan for

[00:30:54] bipolar disorder as well and and i moved into acceptance yes because of education and work

[00:31:00] and treatment well i think is what you're saying is actually leads beautifully into the into her

[00:31:09] final point which is that gradually the individual can learn to compartmentalize mental illness

[00:31:17] and to find ample space in life for healthy and worthwhile pursuits you know you just

[00:31:24] learned to live with it and it doesn't just overwhelm all the rest of your life that's

[00:31:29] that's what i found yeah and that's what we also talked about a minute ago with you know not letting

[00:31:35] it define you and i loved what karen had to say as well you know the other thing you and i kicked

[00:31:42] around we talked about prominent people who might be you know inspiration for us and we also mentioned

[00:31:53] briefly before i go into the prominent people who inspire us just other role models in our life

[00:31:59] and it's surrounding myself with people like you helen you're you know you thrive you inspire me i

[00:32:05] surround myself with others who are thriving and healthy and and that fellowship of others who

[00:32:15] are living a thriving life really really does support me and thank you for all you do to

[00:32:20] support me you've been really extra supportive lately as i have had a busy

[00:32:28] challenging thriving life still thriving but thank you helen well you're welcome and i'm uh

[00:32:34] it's just so gratifying that you put me in that category i appreciate it well onto prominent

[00:32:42] role models and so abraham lincoln is one of the prominent role models that a lot of people

[00:32:47] don't understand how much he struggled with chronic depression he really battled deep depression

[00:32:53] as described in this quote of his he said i am now the most miserable man living if what i feel

[00:33:01] were equally distributed to the whole human family there would not be one cheerful face on earth

[00:33:10] you know he also said this one really resonates with me if there is a place worse than hell

[00:33:17] i am in it yes he was so he was he was so beautifully articulate you know as well as

[00:33:24] as someone who he suffered beautifully i guess you could say yeah winston churchell also made a

[00:33:33] famous quote about hell he said if you're in hell keep going and as we know winston churchell

[00:33:39] was the british prime minister during world war two he's a Nobel award winner in literature

[00:33:45] and yet he battled his own war against depression and suicidal thoughts and he called his depression

[00:33:52] his black dog two authors and also carry fischer is an actor so two authors earnest him in way

[00:34:04] separate from depression and carry fischer lived with bipolar disorder she wrote some really funny

[00:34:12] and helpful and insightful books yeah i saw her once on broadway doing a one woman's show

[00:34:19] and she was really really forthright about her uh her her her mental illnesses and and the havoc

[00:34:27] they had wreaked on her life just to get better did you see wishful drinking on broadway yes oh my

[00:34:34] gosh i saw that i saw it on television i'm so jealous wishful drinking was amazing i had

[00:34:39] forgotten the name of it yeah that was it yeah she was she was amazing now here's some there's some

[00:34:45] other people uh well we're just going to give a few more but one is um the late great uh

[00:34:52] ann richards governor an richards who is the former governor of texas she had a substance

[00:34:57] use disorder um emma stone who just won her second oscar uh has anxiety lady gaga ptsd

[00:35:07] michael felps the swimmer the most decorated olympian of all time has depression suicidal ideation

[00:35:14] and substance use disorder and finally serena williams the legendary tennis player uh had to

[00:35:23] really fight postpartum depression and we want to add one more we loved calen's answer when

[00:35:30] we asked her about any prominent figure that had motivated her rupal and um his show drag race and all

[00:35:40] the drag queens on that show um i know rupal has talked about sobriety and recovery and a lot of

[00:35:48] queens on that show have gone through um you know unimaginable hardship and just like the joy

[00:35:57] and fun and laughter and freedom that they all um embody and bring through the screen like has been

[00:36:09] such a um just like such a touch point for me now let's move on to how to thrive and we're

[00:36:22] going to just mention again i'm going to the criteria for thriving social relationships

[00:36:29] positive emotions the ability to fulfill life roles and you know valerian i have racked we've

[00:36:35] racked our brains we cannot come up with anything that doesn't fit in one of those three categories

[00:36:40] so here are just some basic methods and skills for thriving number one owning your feelings

[00:36:48] two finding the positive three eliminating toxic influences four creating healthy routines

[00:36:59] and five perhaps most important of all supporting and connecting with others

[00:37:07] those are great methods and skills for thriving and i do we both do incorporate

[00:37:14] all five of those in our lives and it's not something anybody can do all the time it's

[00:37:19] those things we strive for if i strive for those then i thrive heli commented on that last strategy

[00:37:28] that you mentioned helen supporting and connecting with others and i want to share what she had to

[00:37:33] say that idea of spending time in fellowship really investing in other people i think that this

[00:37:40] idea of self-reliance that i grew up with that i should be able to take care of everything myself

[00:37:45] i don't believe that anymore i believe that i i really need to ask for help in order to get

[00:37:50] through things and i need to provide help to other people now helen you and i talked about

[00:37:57] at the beginning that we um asked ourselves are we thriving and then we kind of went back

[00:38:05] to see how we got here and will you share with us your thoughts on your journey to thriving please

[00:38:13] i will um this episode just brought me up short the concept of thriving had been so impossible

[00:38:23] some kind of cruel joke in my mind through decades of treatment for five long years one doctor

[00:38:29] told me the goal of our work was to reduce my symptoms and shorten the length of my trauma episodes

[00:38:36] now as for my future she said there was no cure for PTSD and that i'd be in treatment for the

[00:38:41] rest of my life the most important goal was to find enough money to pay for it well this was

[00:38:47] no life i wanted to live i mean my disdain of the words victim and survivor was full of

[00:38:53] depressed rage in this bitter sad disappointment i don't want to survive i said it sounds like

[00:39:00] selling pencils in the subway i want to thrive and since that was out of the question the only

[00:39:07] alternative i could see was suicide but here i am today so first what does thriving mean in a

[00:39:16] life well i had thought that thriving was high-profile jobs and prizes good press and active

[00:39:22] social life you know just a successful masquerade from the pain and self-hatred underneath but in

[00:39:31] order to thrive i had to abandon all those old notions of what gives life meaning and this is

[00:39:40] how i moved towards thriving i had to change so first internal change for me thriving begins

[00:39:51] with self-respect and self-knowledge a certainty about what matters what i can do what i shouldn't

[00:39:57] do whom i can love and how to tolerate my mistakes when i'm wrong which is really hard certainty that

[00:40:04] i will stumble fall back and that i can recover and move on thriving also requires acceptance

[00:40:13] self-acceptance first and then acceptance of the random quality of life in the erratic

[00:40:19] nature of human behavior including my own acceptance of mental illness is part of the

[00:40:25] hand i was dealt but not all of it for me trust is essential to trust the ground beneath my feet

[00:40:33] even when it's slippery to trust my people even one one of us lets the other down and then

[00:40:40] there is gratitude for so much of my life the gratitude i felt was really guilt about how much

[00:40:46] i've been given materially and an almost immeasurable ingratitude for mental illness

[00:40:54] now gratitude is part of the fabric of my daily life i can't believe how lucky i am

[00:41:01] and it isn't about the big things as much as the small gifts of daily living but am i thriving

[00:41:09] well i was certain that friends of mine were a valory was the first first person i thought of

[00:41:13] and so this made me look at the methods and actions of others who were thriving

[00:41:19] now again there was the the internal changes first with my identity my opinion of myself

[00:41:26] that was enriched by the skills i have to sustain positive thoughts self-regulation

[00:41:32] and inner peace and i now i'm able to take responsibility and action i no longer expect

[00:41:39] perfection and i've learned to find the joy in where i am as opposed to fantasies of where i'm

[00:41:46] supposed to be so as my internal life improved i was able to focus on external steps towards

[00:41:54] thriving well relationships first people are the most important thing in my life and my my again

[00:42:01] i'm so lucky my life contains a landscape of all kinds of people i'm in a 10 year relationship

[00:42:09] something i'd given up on long ago and then there is community which that word keeps cropping up well

[00:42:16] for me i need the sense of belonging and giving to something bigger than myself then there's work

[00:42:25] having been told i would never work again i now have almost more than i can handle i mean this

[00:42:30] podcast my own creative writing a lot of volunteering and as much public speaking as i can health is

[00:42:38] essential exercise diet sleep and medication or the basics dreaded personal business

[00:42:46] bills documents filing are my idea of hell on earth i hate it but i do it and find the open

[00:42:54] mindedness i try to always be open to new opportunities and challenges even when they

[00:43:01] involve risk so about thriving i learned that there's something on the other side of survival

[00:43:09] which i had never understood a rich productive active meaningful life with people and work and

[00:43:16] books music laughter and the mental health to appreciate and engage in it fully that's

[00:43:24] what was missing for me and this way of living was truly beyond my imagination

[00:43:29] until i realized that i i no longer need a masquerade my internal life and external life

[00:43:38] are one it's sneaked up on me when i didn't see it coming i am thriving you can see why i am so

[00:43:49] i am so grateful oh hell and you do have so much to be grateful for and you've worked for it

[00:44:00] i can see the journey you've been on and you have really shared a lot and i

[00:44:10] so appreciate everything you have and everything you share with me now as i edited the interviews

[00:44:20] with kelly kailyn and karen getting ready for this episode

[00:44:25] their own eloquent definitions of thriving for some reason brought to mind a vivid memory for me

[00:44:33] and it's how i'm going to illustrate thriving um this memory is maybe the first time i realized

[00:44:43] i was thriving not just surviving it was uh it's a memory of a dinner time on a school night and

[00:44:51] at the time it was what had become just a normal school night routine for our family

[00:44:57] now remember that my son and daughter were in high school so that means i had crawled

[00:45:02] my way out of my five-year psychiatric crisis so that means that i would have been like a year or two

[00:45:11] sober and that i would have been stable with my mental health at that point for maybe um a year

[00:45:17] or two and i would have been working full time again this time in my new career as a teacher

[00:45:22] so there we were who we were eating dinner at our big round dining table and uh two of the

[00:45:29] kids friends had joined us for dinner and that was a common occurrence everyone was laughing at something

[00:45:35] someone said and it had been a noisy and fun dinner so far i remember i mean i can just see the kids

[00:45:43] reaching for serving dishes to refill their plates with my husband's delicious food he's an amazing

[00:45:49] cook and i remember the windows were kind of foggy because the house was warm and toasty

[00:45:57] against the winter cold outside and this is the moment i really remember i remember looking around

[00:46:04] and thinking this is it this is the full meaningful life i have rebuilt and that i am totally present for

[00:46:15] this is what i want to provide for my family and for myself and here it is

[00:46:19] and you know helen i can still see that dining room with those 14

[00:46:25] ages two of them mine and with my husband laughing and talking and being silly and

[00:46:31] and i was part of it probably for the first time in a long time i was laughing and talking

[00:46:38] and being silly and it was the authentic me i was spontaneous and it was fun that's thriving now

[00:46:51] as my recovery has progressed these 20 plus years since that night i know that my ability to be

[00:47:00] authentic like that is intrinsic to my ability to thrive it's that self-acceptance care and talked about

[00:47:10] i continuously strive to love and accept myself as a whole person with strengths and flaws

[00:47:20] and i strive to allow others to see both the strengths and the flaws and to expect

[00:47:29] both those strengths and those flaws to be respected i pray every day to be of service to god

[00:47:37] and my fellows to be of service to the best of my ability and i know that if i don't take care

[00:47:44] of myself that ability will be limited i thrive because i take care of myself

[00:47:52] and because i'm taking care of myself i am doing well physically mentally emotionally and spiritually

[00:48:00] i am successful in all the areas that are important to me and this is really important to me

[00:48:07] i know that i have the strength to handle whatever comes my way with the help of my higher power

[00:48:12] my family my friends and my support system i am thriving you are thriving ballery and you

[00:48:24] set such a great example for all of us as to what it can look like after many years in in hell you

[00:48:33] know to to to uh to come out triumphant really and i also am very glad that you told a story

[00:48:41] of a very kind of ordinary memory that you have of an ordinary time because it's what i said earlier

[00:48:50] i think this is what uh this is what thriving is really all about it's the smaller things it's not

[00:48:57] big awards and prizes and all that stuff um so what we always do with our guests is we end by asking

[00:49:07] them what brings them hope for those living with mental health conditions let's hear from

[00:49:14] kailyn kelly and then karen there is so much positivity out there and there is so much

[00:49:25] help out there and you know i think it's hard to see sometimes and while there is a tremendous

[00:49:34] amount of negativity out there i also see the community that people build and the

[00:49:42] you know conversation around trauma and mental health and you know that has just kind of

[00:49:54] blown up because of social media there is so much good information and good community and good

[00:50:03] like so many great resources out there to just start scratching the surface of these like

[00:50:11] recovery and you know mental health and concepts that so much inspiration that can put people on

[00:50:20] that path to thriving there's more acceptance around mental illness now and less stigma so

[00:50:27] i think other people more people have the opportunity to get the resources that are

[00:50:32] necessary i think the longevity of my sobriety and recovery in mental health gives me hope for others

[00:50:41] and quite frankly that's an example that it can be done and that gives me a lot of hope

[00:50:47] every time somebody else mentions the beauty in the world i've seen that people can thrive

[00:50:55] and will thrive and i know some of the things that it takes to thrive and so the evidence is there

[00:51:03] and that's what gives me hope is all of the many stories that i have heard along the way

[00:51:09] that inspire the work that i do and that continue to inspire me and to believe in

[00:51:16] what is possible is really just based on just the evidence that i've seen in people who are

[00:51:21] thriving and who've done it who shared their story of also being in a place where they didn't think

[00:51:27] they could ever thrive and they did it and that they're their miracles like to me it's just this

[00:51:33] amazing it's the thriving that we talked about that where we started like what's the definition

[00:51:37] of that like this flourishing and this empowerment and stuff you know it's possible

[00:51:43] because i've watched many people do it and we're we are all capable of that and i firmly

[00:51:50] believe in that well that was amazing um these comments from our guests provide hope and inspiration

[00:51:57] inspiration for all of us who struggle to thrive and remember their words of hope are straight

[00:52:04] out voices of experience and i think this is the best place to close the topic here's a final

[00:52:13] lovely definition thrive a sustained sense that life is good meaningful and worthwhile

[00:52:24] and speaking of meaningful and worthwhile valerie is now going to lead us in a mindfulness exercise

[00:52:31] yes i will what is mindfulness i always give a definition mindfulness is a mental state

[00:52:39] achieved by focusing one's awareness on the present moment while calmly acknowledging and

[00:52:46] accepting one's feelings thoughts and bodily sensations without judgment

[00:52:54] you know a key element on the path to thriving is defining and pursuing a vision for our life

[00:53:00] our mindfulness exercise today will be clarifying our vision let's get mindful if you are driving or

[00:53:11] walking please adapt this mindfulness exercise in such a way that it works in your current

[00:53:17] surroundings if you can find a comfortable seated position try closing your eyes if it's

[00:53:25] safe to do so settle in and breathe as always let's begin with a few diaphragmatic breaths

[00:53:35] whether your eyes are open or closed let's steady our breathing with two diaphragmatic breaths

[00:53:43] when you do this on your own take as many breaths as you need to become calm and centered

[00:53:49] i usually take about 10 diaphragmatic breaths to begin my mindfulness and meditation practice

[00:53:57] let's breathe inhale through your nose expanding an imaginary balloon in your stomach as you inhale

[00:54:08] exhale through your mouth pulling your stomach in as you do forcefully exhaling again inhale

[00:54:18] through your nose expanding that balloon in your stomach drop your shoulders exhale through your

[00:54:27] mouth pulling your stomach in keep this slow steady breath going there are a few questions we

[00:54:42] could ask ourselves about our desires goals and struggles to help us define our vision for our

[00:54:50] life as you consider these questions for yourself keep your slow steady breath going what do i long

[00:55:03] for what obstacles do i need to overcome to fulfill this longing what would be nourishing to me

[00:55:37] as i work to conquer these obstacles how would i feel as i felt my vision coming into focus

[00:56:23] how would i feel as my life aligned with this vision for my life breathe deeply and take in

[00:56:46] living your vision driven if your eyes are closed please open them and gently bring

[00:57:10] yourself back to the room thank you for doing this mindfulness exercise with me thank you valerie

[00:57:20] that was uh well it was um very inspirational and it was worthwhile and meaningful so i also

[00:57:29] want to i don't even know how to profoundly thank kelly kailyn and karen and for our listeners

[00:57:37] we wish for you a life worth living a sustained sense of well-being a chance to survive and then

[00:57:45] to thrive our next episode is also an exceptional and life-changing topic we kept coming across it

[00:57:53] and we decided it really deserves its own episode valerie and i will be tackling the subject

[00:57:59] of work one of life's necessities work is essential for survival but where does work fit in the battle

[00:58:07] for mental health and in a life in recovery when is work the cause of mental illness and when

[00:58:14] is mental illness the obstacle to work so please join us for a multifaceted investigation of work

[00:58:21] it's challenges demands contradictions power and rewards until then i leave you with our favorite word

[00:58:33] onward are you ready to ignite your best life and illuminate the world i'm stefanie james i'm a

[00:58:50] motivational speaker transformation coach and psychotherapist and what lights me up is helping

[00:58:57] people just like you create the greatest versions of themselves on my podcast igniting the spark i will

[00:59:04] help you ignite your joy and reach new heights in your personal and professional life join me for

[00:59:11] some incredible conversations with authors spiritual teachers and other influential thought

[00:59:17] leaders to help guide you on your way if you are ready to stop playing small join me

[00:59:24] for igniting the spark on the mind body spirit dot fm network or wherever you get your podcasts

[00:59:31] and ignite your best life