In this episode, Valerie and Helen pursue the holy grail of recovery—thriving in the aftermath of mental illness. For centuries, the ability to thrive would seem almost inconceivable, as traditional treatments focused on the cessation of symptoms and basic survival. But recent studies prove that thriving is possible, even for those who’ve suffered from severe, long-term illness or multiple diagnoses. Helen and Valerie reveal how they progressed into thriving after long years of struggle.
Three guests also share their insights and methods for thriving today. As proven in research, thriving after mental illness is becoming recognized as an achievable outcome. Helen and Valerie’s wish for their listeners is the chance for a rich, fulfilling, meaningful life worth living.
Find Helen and Valerie at www.mentalhealthhopeandrecovery.com
NAMI: “Thriving with Bipolar” by Maureen Goldman
Mental Health Nursing Magazine. 2012, Issue 11.
From Survive to Thrive: Living Your Best Life with Mental Illness by Dr. Margaret S. Chisolm, 2021
A Guide to Thriving with Mental Illness by Mequell W. Buck, 2016
Canadian Community Health Research Survey: Thriving with a Mental Illness, 2012
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Thriving in Mental Health Recovery
Episode 41
Helen Sneed: Welcome to our award winning podcast, Mental Health Hope and Recovery. I'm Helen Sneed.
Valerie Milburn: And I'm Valerie Milburn.
Helen Sneed: We both have fought and overcome severe chronic mental illnesses. Our podcast offers a unique approach to mental health conditions. We use practical skills and inspirational true stories of recovery. Our knowledge is up close and personal.
Valerie Milburn: Helen and I are your peers. We're not doctors, therapists or social workers. We're not professionals, but we are experts. We are experts in our own lived experience with multiple mental health diagnoses symptoms. Please join us on our journey.
Helen Sneed: We live in recovery.
Valerie Milburn: So can you this podcast does not provide medical advice. The information presented is not intended to be a substitute for or relied upon as medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. The podcast is for informational purposes only. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health providers with any health related questions you may have.
Helen Sneed: Welcome to episode 41, thriving and recovery. Is it possible to thrive after mental illness? Well, this episode was born by accident. I think we can say this, Valerie. While doing some research, I stumbled across this Canadian study on thriving in the aftermath of mental illness and that it was possible. And Valerie, you and I were intrigued and really kind of galvanized. And for me, I began to wonder if I was thriving and I was almost afraid to ask. You know, I felt kind of sheepish and I, I thought, well, gosh, I'm going to sound so arrogant if I go around saying oh well, I'm thriving. So I kind of almost backed away from it. Valerie, what was it like for you?
Valerie Milburn: Well, it was really interesting because as you were stumbling across the Canadian study, I was stumbling across really great book called From Surviving to Thriving. And I'll talk more about that book in a bit but, you know, you said it led us to ask ourselves, are we thriving? And I am indeed thriving. I also had a journey in thinking about that, but it also led us to ask others if they were thriving. And three voices came to mind immediately. Three people came to mind. More than three. But we asked three particular voices to join us for this episode. Vibrant, thriving voices. And we'll hear their perspectives on what thriving means to them. We will learn what gave them the belief during their darkest times that they could thrive. We'll learn how they handle their setbacks and about their own struggles and skills for flourishing. Sharing their thoughts with us today are Kaylin, Kelly Reed and Karen Rainas. Let me give you a quick introduction of Kaylin, Kelly, and Karen. I met Kaylyn when she was five years old and watched her blossom through high school. And our paths diverged when she went off to college. But unbeknownst to each other, we each had a deep dive with our mental health. We reconnected in the world of recovery. And I'm honored that Kaylin is sharing with us the thriving life she's living today. Now, Kelly Reed is my dear, dear friend. We met in 2006, 2007, in a support community for those with a mental health condition and a substance use disorder.
Valerie Milburn: We have shared a life of recovery ever since. Kelly inspires me with how she thrives by living her life in gratitude, service, and spirituality. Karen Rainas has a long history as a professional in the mental health field, as a mental health strategist, trainer, presenter, and innovator. In these capacities, she's been a support to many on their journey in thriving. Karen has been instrumental in the success of this podcast as she has supported us in so many ways. Karen has the blessing of a daughter who lives a life of thriving with the mental health condition. And we're so appreciative that the three of them have shared their time, their wisdom and experiences with us.
Helen Sneed: Yes, they've been just incredibly generous and, of course, brilliant and insightful. Now, some people may not be able to hear about thriving or to see it for themselves, depending on where they are in their journey. And we both have been there and know full well the feeling of despair and memories of how impossible it seemed. However, we want to present the concept of thriving as something achievable, a worthy goal. I mean, thriving is as individual as every person who's fought for survival, recovery, and a life worth living. So let me share one individual's definition of thriving. Here's Karen.
Speaker C: First of all, I just want to say how much. I love that you're using this word thriving. I love the word because I think it's such a powerful one in terms of I think of thriving and I just think of growth and this sense of, to me, thriving is so much about being completely in this place of embracing who you are. When I think of people who are thriving, that's what I tend to see is people who are at that place where there is this fullness in their understanding of who they are and a valuing of it and a protection of it that I think is critically important. And so that's, I think, to me, what it means to be thriving is to be fully who you are and embracing that.
Helen Sneed: Let's start with the four stages of mental illness. Crisis, struggle, surviving, and thriving. In other episodes, we focused a great deal on the first three. Today we examine the holy grail of recovery. Thriving. Well, first off, what exactly do we mean by thriving? Well, the World Health Organization defines health as a complete physical, mental and social well being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity. It goes on to say mental health is not merely the absence of mental illnesses, but also the presence of psychological thriving.
Valerie Milburn: And here's the definition of survive, which is what we can put up against these definitions of thrive and see the difference of where we have been and where we head and survive. Definition is continue to live or exist, especially in spite of danger or hardship. And I was there for a long time just living and existing. And now the definition of thrive, one that I love, is prosper, flourish. Now let's hear Kaylin's and then Kelly's definitions of thriving.
Kaylin: I think to me, thriving is really being present, being able to experience joy, but also being able to experience, you know, pain and challenge, even, you know, while also knowing that those things are temporary. Right? So being able to kind of be present with all of it and not.
Helen Sneed: Seek.
Kaylin: Disconnection from the difficult things, while also being able to experience the positive moments that much more fully.
Kelly Reed: My definition of thriving is living beyond just surviving. That for me, is living a healthy way within my values. So I would like to think of it as something really extraordinary. But for me, it is really accepting life as it is and being content.
Helen Sneed: All right, now let's look at the phenomenal Canadian study on thriving that has had such an impact on both of us. Valerie?
Valerie Milburn: Yes, the 202012 Canadian Community Health Study is the seminal survey on thriving with the mental health condition. This study showed that contrary to traditional clinical
Valerie Milburn: wisdom, mental health conditions may reduce but do not prevent the possibility of thriving. In fact, the lead author of the research article said, and I quote, many people can recover from mental illness and go on to experience a life with high levels of well being and functioning, end quote. Karen commented on something very important to well being and functioning that I want to share.
Speaker C: I firmly believe that when we are really hard on ourselves and we don't really root ourselves in self compassion, we can be so kind and caring and gentle and supportive of other people. And yet so often we fail to do that for ourselves. To be as kind and gentle and nourishing, nurturing to ourselves as we are to others, I think is so important if we want to aspire to that thriving place. We can't expect others to be gentle and compassionate and empathetic to us if we're not modeling what that looks like for ourselves.
Valerie Milburn: Yes, being kind and gentle and nurturing to ourselves is definitely part of positive emotions. And positive emotions is one of the criteria this research study used as a criteria for thriving. So here's the scoop on the research study. There were 25,000 Canadians age 15 to 80 included in this study. Their criteria for thriving included positive emotions, which I just mentioned, also social relationships and the ability to fulfill life roles. The researchers set a really high bar for self defining as thriving. Those with a mental health condition had to meet or exceed the level of well being met by the top 25% of the normative sample in order to self define as thriving. And yet, even with that high bar, 10% of those with mental health conditions define themselves as thriving. In comparison, 24% of those without a mental health issue define themselves as thriving. So that's 10% with the mental health condition define themselves as thriving. And 24% of those without a mental health condition define themselves as thriving. Now here's some information on thriving statistics per illness. 10% of those with substance use disorders define themselves as thriving. 7% who live with depression do so, 6% who live with anxiety do so. And 3% of those with bipolar disorder define themselves as thriving. Here's one last thing about this study. The researchers found that even having longer episodes of mental illness or experiencing multiple mental illnesses in one's lifetime reduces, but does not eliminate the chances of thriving. And Helen, you and I are proof of that.
Helen Sneed: You know, we, we are indeed. And I am. So it just makes me happy to see it in writing.
Valerie Milburn: Yes. And you know, I mentioned that this study's high bar for thriving made me think about, you know, that comparison, but it made me think about what Kelly said.
Kelly Reed: Well, I used to Think that like happiness was the, was the norm. Like that's what I was going for with my mental illness. I thought that was like super. Happiness was baseline. And I remember when I got to the point where I thought, oh, actually, contentment is a healthy baseline for me.
Valerie Milburn: I love that. Contentment, thriving, just beautiful. Now, Helen, you delved into the follow up research on this Canadian study I just shared, and it's so interesting. Tell us about the follow up study, please.
Helen Sneed: Well, Valerie, the great irony is that the Canadian study that galvanized us really just kind of languished for the next 10 years. And then it was revisited by Dr. Andrew Davendorf of the University of Southern Florida at the Mood and Emotion Lab, where the study of thriving is, well, thriving. It took a professional with vision and belief to focus on the concept of thriving. Now, his work resulted in a groundbreaking article from April 2022, the association for Psychological Science. For the first time, the article and its outcomes were picked up by numerous publications and began to be embraced by many in the field. Now Dr. Davendorf and his colleagues are researching and establishing some new exciting approaches
Helen Sneed: to mental health treatment that can help steer a patient towards thriving. Traditionally, mental health fields have invested their energy in tracking symptoms or disorders as endpoints of research and treatment. That was it. The professionals have focused on treatments that reduce symptoms rather than the extent to which therapy and treatment methods can lead to a state of well being which is thriving. The absence of symptoms does not equal the presence of good functioning. And now that we know thriving is possible after mental illness, we hope that researchers will begin to investigate how existing treatments can increase the chance for thriving after mental illness. Dr. Davendorf has stated, ridding oneself of anxiety is not the same as creating joy, meaning and satisfaction with life. Now, Karen shared an anecdote from an outing with her daughter that illustrates this beautifully.
Speaker C: When I think back to 13 years ago when my daughter was first in crisis, and days when I thought she would never really be okay. And it was heartbreaking to me. And to see her now. We went to a play. I could hear her laughing. And it's still, even to this day, this many years, her laughter, that belly laughter that is so authentic and beautiful, will just brighten me because I just think about that, those really difficult times when she was in that dark place and there, there wasn't any authentic laughter or light in her life.
Helen Sneed: I can practically hear that belly laugh, can't you?
Valerie Milburn: Yes, I can.
Helen Sneed: So how do they measure thriving? Well, number one, it has to be psychological. A sense of well being, overall life satisfaction, self acceptance, a sense of purpose and positive relationships. And then secondly, they set something called the thriving standard. They calculated the norms of well being among people who did not experience mental illness. Then they assessed how many people with a history of mental illness met those same criteria. For mentally challenged people, they had to be no longer diagnosable and meet or exceed the level of well being met by the top 25% of the normative sample. The outcome was 10% of those with depression met the standard of thriving. 21% of those with no depression met the standard. That shows that 10 years later, the 21% outcome was even lower than the Canadian statistics from that study. Now, survey data shows patient groups value the presence of elements of well being as much or more than the absence of symptoms. So what's needed is, is a more expansive treatment approach that will focus on the severity of mental illness and possible relapse. Yes. But also focuses on the possibility of recovery and thriving. Thriving is different for different people. And the individual can best define the components of life that create an ongoing sense of well being for him or her. Dr. Davendorf's research is examining the multiple pathways to wellness, which increases the odds for thriving. There is more than one pathway now. Some are fixed, such as financial status or genetic makeup, but others are within human control, such as habits, routines, self regulation skills. Kelly told us about a part of her wellness pathway, the importance of sleep.
Kelly Reed: I have some parameters set around my mental health with my doctor. If I don't sleep more than five hours, three days in a row, then I might get symptomatic and that might actually be a symptom of my mental illness having an episode. So that's a guideline for me.
Valerie Milburn: You know, the things you just talked about, Helen, that patient groups value the presence of elements of well being as much or more than the absence of symptoms. Well, yeah, we want a life bigger than just not being symptomatic. And I'm very glad. And it's so encouraging that the research shows this. But duh, we've known this, that we want a big life, that we want a thriving life. And it's very validating that they've proved this, proven this in the lab. That's the name of the, you know, the department at the university that did this research, the emotions lab. So
Valerie Milburn: it's very encouraging that the treatment world is going to look for treatment plans that lead to this bigger sense of recovery. I'm laughing, but I'm serious. It's very encouraging work. One of the Statistics I gave earlier was that the different statistics for thriving from the different types of disorders and the one for bipolar disorder was pretty low. Only 3% of people with bipolar disorder are self defined as thriving. So I wanted to give some quotes from an article called Thriving with Bipolar Disorder from the NAMI national magazine, the Advocate. And Thriving with Bipolar Disorder is a wonderful article title and these are some things the author of the article had to say about her life. And I'm going to quote directly from the article. She said people with bipolar disorder have to pick themselves up again and again. Sometimes you start from scratch. You have to be willing and invested in mining your goodness and finding faith over and over. I've dusted myself off many times, she said. I know failure really well. No matter how many times I nearly disintegrate, swing too high or too low, my soul awaits for me. It is whole and healthy and it is a tremendous friend. This illness will never diminish it or steal my essence. You have no idea how grateful I am.
Helen Sneed: There it is, that word, grateful. And I think this is so profoundly beautiful, especially the. For me, this illness will never diminish it or steal my essence, because that is, I would go to that horrible place and think that I had. The illness had completely robbed me of everything positive. So these are beautiful words. And there's one more source of, of early validation. And it comes from nurses who are always, you know, know more about this than anyone else. And it's from Men Health nursing magazine from 2012, way back. Mental health nursing is focused on patients moving along the continuum between failing and thriving in terms of emotional functioning. This differs dramatically from the medical model of disease and cure. Nursing encourages more research into this mode of focus and treatment. And they also said many nursing theorists have directly and indirectly identified the importance of the patient's will to thrive. Will to thrive, which to me just speaks volumes. It's a particular emphasis on the importance of patient responsibility that is identified as vital to the process of true change. Now, Kaylin gave a beautiful example of the will to thrive.
Kaylin: I was like sitting on the back porch, just like noticed a blue jay. And I looked up the symbolism of blue jays and just how they're so resourceful and they, like, set good boundaries and they really take care of themselves. And I don't know, I just had this moment where I was. I just knew that even though I was going through the hardest, most traumatic thing I had probably ever been through, I knew that I was going to be okay. And I knew that, like, things were Going to be really, really beautiful on the other side. And that kept me going even when it was really hard.
Valerie Milburn: That's such a beautiful vision of Kaylin sitting on the back porch. I love that will to thrive. So here's the book I mentioned earlier, from survive to thrive, Living your best life with mental illness. And it's by Dr. Margaret Chisholm, and she is with the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. And what really got my attention is the Johns Hopkins model to therapy. It's called the biopsychosocial model. And this biopsychosocial model diverges from traditional psychiatry's heavy reliance on the dsm. That's the Diagnostic Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. It's the
Valerie Milburn: bible of psychiatry in diagnosis. And the DSM lists criteria and symptoms for making a diagnosis. The biopsychosocial model encompasses the full person it believes the DSM overlooks. It believes that a person's full story is revealed by examining four perspectives. And these perspectives are life story, dimensions of personality, behavior patterns, and by the perspective of mental health as understood through matter of brain and body health. This model is the belief that people with mental health conditions cannot be reduced to diseased brains or imbalanced chemical profiles. Rather, they are individuals whose unique life story and personality are paramount to understanding their challenges.
Helen Sneed: You know, Valerie, I used to say to one doctor in particular, you know, I would say, look, I am not just a bag of symptoms, I am a full human being, you know, trying to get that across. And it was, it was, it was such a, it was so dispiriting, you know, to, to be looked at that way.
Valerie Milburn: I loved what I learned in that book. The other thing I learned in that book are the four pathways to flourishing that are something you and I talk about all the time, Helen. We talk about family, work, education and community. And I did want to talk about. I loved their definition of flourishing. A bold or extravagant gesture and then a musical fanfare of trumpets. A musical fanfare of trumpets is a flourish. And I loved that they used those as definitions of flourishing.
Helen Sneed: Well, I would like for the trumpets to come just dress directly ahead of me as I enter a room. But I'm probably not going to get my way. Now. Valerie, you talked about professionals emphasizing the importance of community and how vital that is. And both Kaylin and Kelly really rely on community as essential in their lives. So let's hear what Kelly and then Kaylin have to share.
Kelly Reed: So find a community of like minded people or like diagnosed people, or just find a community.
Kaylin: Community support is like number one for me. So you know, 12 step programs have.
Valerie Milburn: Been.
Kaylin: Again, that's like my my foundation. I feel like.
Helen Sneed: Adjective used to describe an individual whose spirit is unyielding, unconstrained, one who navigates life on their own terms effortlessly. They do not always show up on time, but when they arrive you notice an individual confident in their contradictions. They know the rules, but behave as if they do not exist. The new fragrance by Miu Miu defined by you now the book that I would like to talk about is called A Guide to Thriving with Mental Illness by Miquel W. Bush Buck. The author is a survivor who's thriving and through telling her personal story, Buck strongly advises certain attitudes and actions that helped her. She's very forthright to begin with. Take responsibility as best you can. Learn to regard mental illness as a part of your life, but no longer the defining and controlling component of your existence. Now Karen has given an excellent example of that.
Speaker C: I see it in my own daughter who for a long time battled that I don't want to be that depressed person or that anxious person. That's not who I want to be. And it's so different than where she is
Speaker C: now, where it's like this is a part of who I am and it doesn't define me and I get to be all of these other things. And I think I see her in her best self today because she has accepted this is just one aspect of me that I have to manage well. And part of what has helped accelerate that thriving has been her fully exploring and what are those things that are unique to me that I have to do in order to be able to thrive.
Helen Sneed: Another action that Mikwell Buck advises in her book is, and this is kind of the essence of it all, education is empowering. Learn to manage through knowledge as much as you can about the illness. Understand your symptoms, medications, participate fully in Therapy, ask many questions, become an expert on your own illness.
Valerie Milburn: You know, education was so empowering for me. When I first was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, I was really fighting to accept that. And my psychiatrist said, you have a journalism degree. You know how to do research. Go do some research. And I did. And I got educated and I understood my symptoms, just like you said. I learned about medications, and I really became an expert in bipolar disorder, and it helped me so much.
Helen Sneed: Well, didn't you say that that helped you most of all with acceptance that you did have an illness?
Valerie Milburn: It did, because I saw that I had a disease called bipolar disorder and that I had symptoms that could be controlled through medication, through lifestyle changes, through work, not, you know, through therapy, through everything I could do, I could bring my disease under control. I mean, if I had high blood pressure and took a high blood pressure medication, my blood pressure would stabilize. Well, there's a treatment plan for bipolar disorder as well. And I moved into acceptance. Yes. Because of education and work and treatment.
Helen Sneed: Well, I think this. What you're saying is. Actually leads beautifully into the. Into her final point, which is that gradually the individual can learn to compartmentalize mental illness and to find ample space in life for healthy and worthwhile pursuits. You know, you just learn to live with it, and it doesn't just overwhelm all the rest of your life. That's what I found.
Valerie Milburn: Yeah. And that's what we also talked about a minute ago with, you know, not letting it define you. And I loved what Karen had to say as well. You know, the other thing you and I kicked around. We talked about prominent people who might be, you know, inspiration for us. And we also mentioned briefly, before I go into the prominent people who inspire us, just other role models in our life. And it's surrounding myself with people like you, Helen. You're, you know, you thrive, you inspire me. I surround myself with others who are thriving and healthy. And that fellowship of others who are living a thriving life really, really does support me. And thank you for all you do to support me. You've been really extra supportive lately as I have had a busy, challenging, thriving life. Still thriving. But thank you.
Helen Sneed: Well, you're welcome. And I'm. It's just so gratifying that you put me in that category. I appreciate it.
Valerie Milburn: Well, onto prominent role models. And so Abraham Lincoln is one of the prominent role models that a lot of people don't understand how much he struggled with chronic depression. He really battled deep depression, as described in this quote of his. He said, I am now the most Miserable man living. If what I feel were equally distributed to the whole human family, there would not be one cheerful face on earth.
Helen Sneed: You know, he also said, this one really resonates with me. If there is a place worse than h***, I am in it. Yes, he was so, he was, he was so beautifully articulate, you know, as well as, as someone who. He suffered beautifully, I guess you could say.
Valerie Milburn: Yeah. Winston Churchill also made a famous quote about h***. He said, if you're in h***, keep going. And as we know, Winston Churchill was the British Prime Minister during World War II. He's a Nobel award winner in literature, and yet he battled his own war against depression and suicidal thoughts. And he called his depression his black dog.
Valerie Milburn: Two authors and also Carrie Fisher is an actor. So two authors, Ernest Hemingway suffered from depression and Carrie Fisher with bipolar disorder. She wrote some really funny and helpful and insightful books.
Helen Sneed: Yeah, I saw her once on Broadway doing a one woman show and she was really, really forthright about her, her, her, her mental illnesses and, and the havoc they had wreaked on her life. Just get better.
Valerie Milburn: Did you see Wishful Drinking on Broadway?
Helen Sneed: Yes.
Valerie Milburn: Oh, my gosh, I saw the, I saw it on television. I'm so jealous. Wishful Drinking was amazing.
Helen Sneed: I had forgotten the name of it. Yeah, that was it. Yeah, she was, she was amazing. Now here's some, there's some other people. Well, we're just going to give a few more, but one is the late, great Ann Richards. Governor Ann Richards, who is the former governor of Texas. She had a substance use disorder. Emma Stone, who just won her second Oscar, has anxiety, Lady Gaga, ptsd. Michael Phelps, the swimmer, the most decorated Olympian of all time, has depression, suicidal ideation and substance use disorder. And finally, Serena Williams, the legendary tennis player had to really fight postpartum depression. And we want to add one more. We loved Kaylyn's answer when we asked her about any prominent figure that had motivated her, her, RuPaul and.
Kaylin: His show Drag Race and all the drag queens on that show. I know RuPaul has talked about sobriety and recovery and a lot of queens on that show have gone through, you know, unimaginable hardship and just like the joy and fun and laughter and freedom that they all embody and bring through the screen. Like, has been such a, just like such a touch point for me.
Helen Sneed: Now let's move on to how to thrive. And we're going to just mention again, I'm going to the criteria for thriving. Social relationships, positive emotions, the ability to fulfill life roles. And, you know, Valerie and I have wrecked. We've racked our brains. We cannot come up with anything that doesn't fit in one of those three categories. So here are just some basic methods and skills for thriving. Number one, owning your feelings. Two, finding the positive. Three, eliminating toxic influences. Four, creating healthy routines. And five, perhaps most important of all, supporting and connecting with others.
Valerie Milburn: Those are great methods and skills for thriving. And I do, we both do, incorporate all five of those in our lives. And it's not something anybody can do all the time. It's those things we strive for. If I strive for those, then I thrive. Helly commented on that last strategy that you mentioned, Helen. Supporting and connecting with others. And I want to share what she had to say.
Kelly Reed: That idea of spending time in fellowship, really investing in other people, I think that this idea of self reliance that I grew up with, that I should be able to take care of everything myself. I don't believe that anymore. I believe that I. I really need to ask for help in order to get through things and I need to provide help to other people.
Valerie Milburn: Now, Helen, you and I talked about at the beginning that we asked ourselves, are we thriving? And then we kind of went back to see how we got here. And will you share with us your thoughts on your journey to thriving, please?
Helen Sneed: I will. This episode just brought me up short. The concept of thriving had been so impossible. Some kind of cruel joke in my mind through decades of treatment for five long years. One doctor told me the goal of our work was to reduce my symptoms and shorten the length of my trauma episodes. As for my future, she said there was no cure for PTSD and that I'd be in treatment for the rest of my life. The most important goal was to find enough money to pay for it. Well, this was no life I wanted to live. I mean, my disdain of the words victim and survivor was full of depressed rage and this bitter, sad disappointment.
Helen Sneed: I don't want to survive. I said, it sounds like selling pencils in the subway. I want to thrive. And since that was out of the question, the only alternative I could see was suicide. But here I am today. So first, what does thriving mean in a life? Well, I had thought that thriving was high profile jobs and prizes, good press, an active social life, you know, just a successful masquerade from the pain and self hatred underneath. But in order to thrive, I had to abandon all those old notions of what gives life meaning. And this is how I moved towards thriving. I had to change. So first, internal change. For me, thriving begins with self respect and self knowledge. A certainty about what matters, what I can do, what I shouldn't do, whom I can love, and how to tolerate my mistakes when I'm wrong, which is really hard. Certainty that I will stumble, fall back, and that I can recover and move on. Thriving also requires acceptance. Self acceptance first, and then acceptance of the random quality of life in the erratic nature of human behavior, including my own. Acceptance of mental illness is part of the hand I was dealt, but not all of it. For me, trust is essential. To trust the ground beneath my feet, even when it's slippery to trust my people, even when one of us lets the other down. And then there is gratitude. For so much of my life, the gratitude I felt was really guilt about how much I've been given materially and an almost immeasurable ingratitude for mental illness. Now gratitude is part of the fabric of my daily life. I can't believe how lucky I am. And it isn't about the big things as much as the small gifts of daily living. But am I thriving? Well, I was certain that friends of mine were. Valerie was the first person I thought of. And so this made me look at the methods and actions of others who were thriving. Now again, there was the internal changes. First with my identity, my opinion of myself. That was enriched by the skills I have to sustain positive thoughts, self regulation and inner peace. And I now I'm able to take responsibility and action. I no longer expect perfection and I've learned to find the joy in where I am as opposed to fantasies of where I'm supposed to be. So as my internal life improved, I was able to focus on external steps towards thriving. Well, relationships first. People are the most important thing in my life. And my my again, I'm so lucky. My life contains a landscape of all kinds of people. I'm in a 10 year relationship, something I'd given up on long ago. And then there is community, which that word keeps cropping up well for me. I need the sense of belonging and giving to something bigger than myself. Then there's work. Having been told I would never work again, I now have almost more than I can handle. I mean, this podcast, my own creative writing, a lot of volunteering and as much public speaking as I can. Health is essential. Exercise, diet, sleep and medication are the basics. Dreaded personal business bills, documents, filing are my idea of h*** on earth. I hate it, but I do it. And finally, open mindedness. I try to always be open to new opportunities and challenges, even when they involve risk. So about thriving, I learned that there's something on the other side of survival, which I had never understood, a rich, productive, active, meaningful life with people and work and books, music, laughter, and the mental health to appreciate and engage in it fully. That's what was missing for me. And this way of living was truly beyond my imagination until I realized that I. I no longer need a masquerade. My internal life and external life are one. It sneaked up on me when I didn't see it coming. I am thriving. You can see why I am so grateful.
Valerie Milburn: Oh, Helen, you do have so much to
Valerie Milburn: be grateful for and you've worked for it. I can see the journey you've been on and you have really shared a lot and I so appreciate everything you have and everything you share with me. Now. As I edited the interviews with Kelly, Kalyn and Karen getting ready for this episode, their own eloquent definitions of thriving for some reason brought to mind a vivid memory for me. And it's how I'm going to illustrate thriving. This memory is maybe the first time I realized I was thriving. Not just surviving, it was. It's a memory of a dinner time on a school night. And at the time it was what had become just a normal school night routine for our family. Now remember that my son and daughter were in high school. So that means I had crawled my way out of my five year psychiatric crisis. So that means that I would have been like a year or two sober and that I would have been stable with my mental health at that point for maybe a year or two and I would have been working full time again, this time in my new career as a teacher. So there we were, we were eating dinner at our big round dining table and two of the kids friends had joined us for dinner and that was a common occurrence. Everyone was laughing at something someone said and it had been a noisy and fun dinner so far. I remember. I mean, I can just see the kids reaching for serving dishes to refill their plates with my husband's delicious food. He's an amazing cook. And I remember the windows were kind of foggy because the house was warm and toasty against the winter cold outside. And. And this is the moment I really remember. I remember looking around and thinking, this is it. This is the full meaningful life I have rebuilt and that I am totally present for. This is what I want to provide for my family and for myself. And here it is. And you know, Helen, I can still see that dining room with those four teenagers, two of them mine, and with my husband laughing and talking and being silly and. And I was Part of it, probably for the first time in a long time, I was laughing and talking and being silly and it was the authentic me. I was spontaneous and it was fun. That's thriving now. As my recovery has progressed these 20 plus years since that night, I know that my ability to be authentic like that is intrinsic to my ability to thrive. It's that self acceptance Karen talked about. I continuously strive to love and accept myself as a whole person with strengths and flaws. And I strive to allow others to see both the strengths and the flaws and to expect both those strengths and those flaws to be respected. I pray every day to be of service to God and my fellows, to be of service to the best of my ability. And I know that if I don't take care of myself, that ability will be limited. I thrive because I take care of myself and because I'm taking care of myself, I am doing well physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. I am successful in all the areas that are important to me. And this is really important to me. I know that I have the strength to handle whatever comes my way. With the help of my higher power, my family, my friends, and my support system, I am thriving.
Helen Sneed: You are thriving, Valerie. And you set such a great example for all of us as to what it can look like after many years in h***, you know, to come out triumphant, really. And I also am very glad that you told a story of a very kind of ordinary memory that you have of an ordinary time, because it's what I said earlier. I think this is what, this is what thriving is really all about. It's the smaller things. It's
Helen Sneed: It's not big awards and prizes and all that stuff. So what we always do with our guests is we end by asking them what brings them hope for those living with mental health conditions. Let's hear from Kaylyn Kelly and then Karen.
Kaylin: There is so much positivity out there and there is so much help out there. And, you know, I think it's hard to see sometimes. And while there is a tremendous amount of negativity out there, I also see the community that people build and the, you know, conversation around trauma and mental health and, you know, that has just kind of blown up because of social media. There is so much good information and good community and good like so many great resources out there to just start scratching the surface of these recovery and mental health and concepts that so much inspiration that can put people on that path to thriving.
Kelly Reed: There's more acceptance around mental illness now and less stigma. So I think more people have the opportunity to get the resources that are necessary. I think the longevity of my sobriety and recovery in mental health gives me hope for others and quite frankly, sets an example that it can be done and that. That gives me a lot of hope. Every time somebody else mentions the beauty.
Speaker C: In the world, I've seen that people can thrive and will thrive. And I know some of the things that it takes to thrive. And so the evidence is there. And that's what gives me hope, is all of the many stories that I have heard along the way that inspire the work that I do and that continue to inspire me and to believe in what is possible is really just based on just the evidence that I've seen in people who are thriving and who've done it, who shared their story of. Of also being in a place where they didn't think they could ever thrive and they did it and that they're. They're miracles. Like, to me, it's just this amazing. It's the thriving that we talked about that where we started, like, what's the definition of that? Like, this flourishing and this empowerment and stuff. You know, it's possible because I've watched many people do it, and we're. We are all capable of that, and I firmly believe in that.
Helen Sneed: Well, that was amazing. These comments from our guests provide hope and inspiration for all of us who struggle to thrive and remember their words of hope are straight out voices of experience. I think this is the best place to close the topic. Here's a final lovely definition. Thrive. A sustained sense that life is good, meaningful, and worthwhile. And speaking of meaningful and worthwhile, Valerie is now going to lead us in a mindfulness exercise.
Valerie Milburn: Yes, I will. What is mindfulness? I always give a definition. Mindfulness is a mental state achieved by focusing one's awareness on the present moment.
Valerie Milburn: While calmly acknowledging and accepting one's feelings and thoughts and bodily sensations without judgment.
Valerie Milburn: You know, a key element on the.
Valerie Milburn: Path to thriving is defining and pursuing a vision for our life. Our mindfulness exercise today will be clarifying our vision. Let's get mindful. If you are driving or walking, please adapt this mindfulness exercise in such a way that it works in your current surroundings. If you can find a comfortable seated position, try closing your eyes. If it's safe to do so, settle in and breathe. As always, let's begin with a few diaphragmatic breaths. Whether your eyes are open or closed, let's steady our breathing with two diaphragmatic breaths. When you do this on your own, take as many breaths as you need to Become calm and centered. I usually take about 10 diaphragmatic breaths to begin my mindfulness and meditation practice.
Valerie Milburn: Let's breathe. Inhale through your nose, expanding an imaginary balloon in your stomach. As you inhale, exhale through your mouth, pulling your stomach in as you do. Forcefully exhaling again, inhale through your nose, expanding that balloon in your stomach. Drop your shoulders. Exhale through your mouth, pulling your stomach in. Keep this slow, steady breath going. There are a few questions we can ask ourselves about our desires, goals and struggles to help us define our vision for our life. As you consider these questions for yourself, keep your slow, steady breath going. What do I long for? What obstacles do I need to overcome to fulfill this longing? What would be nourishing to me as I work to conquer these obstacles? How would I feel as I felt my vision coming into focus? How would I feel as my life aligned with this vision for my life? Breathe deeply and take in living your vision driven life. If your eyes are closed, please open them and gently bring yourself back to the room.
Valerie Milburn: Thank you for doing this mindfulness exercise with me.
Helen Sneed: Thank you, Valerie. That was. Well, it was very inspirational and it was worthwhile and meaningful. So I also want to. I don't even know how to profoundly thank Kelly, Kalyn and Karen. And for our listeners, we wish for you a life worth living, a sustained sense of well being, a chance to survive and then to thrive. Our next episode is also an exceptional and life changing topic. We kept coming across it and we decided it really deserves its own episode. Valerie and I will be tackling the subject of work, one of life's necessities. Work is essential for survival. But where does work fit in the battle for mental health and in a life in recovery? When is work the cause of mental illness? And when is mental illness the obstacle to work? So please join us for a multifaceted investigation of work, its challenges, demands, contradictions, power and rewards. Until then, I leave you with our favorite word. Onward.