Post-traumatic stress disorder, PTSD, has become a household word. Yet it remains one of the most complex and pernicious mental illnesses in the field. Due to the challenges, Valerie and Helen have devoted two concurrent episodes to understanding, treating, and recovering from the impact of trauma on a life. Join them for Episodes 14 and 15 to learn how to fight, and overcome, this complicated illness, PTSD.
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PTSD and Recovery: I Can’t Believe I Beat it!
Episode 15
Helen Sneed: Welcome to Mental Health, Hope and Recovery. I'm Helen Sneed.
Valerie Milburn: And I'm Valerie Milburn.
Helen Sneed: We both have fought and overcome severe chronic mental illnesses. Our podcast offers a unique approach to mental health conditions. We use practical skills and inspirational stories of recovery. Our knowledge is up close and personal.
Valerie Milburn: Helen and I are your peers. We're not doctors, therapists or social workers. We're not professionals. But we are experts. We are experts in our own lived experience with multiple mental health diagnoses and symptoms. Please join us on our journey.
Helen Sneed: We live in recovery, so can you.
Valerie Milburn: This podcast does not provide medical advice. The information presented is not intended to be a substitute or relied upon as medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. The podcast is for informational purposes only. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health providers with any health related questions you may have.
Helen Sneed: Welcome to episode 15, PTSD and recovery part 2 I can't believe I Beat It Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is as vast, complex and challenging as any mental health condition we know. Given these factors and many effective advancements in the field, we've dedicated two full episodes to PTSD. We strongly encourage you to join us for episode 14, part one as well. Both have been posted at the same time. In combination, both offer an in depth exploration of the condition. We want to say up front that even in two episodes we cannot hope to exhaust the subject and its many faceted complexities and challenges. However, we have a range in depth of information that investigates the causes, symptoms, treatment and recovery from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. We both have PTSD based on childhood trauma that blighted our lives, relationships, work, health and sense of self for decades. Please bear in mind that what we discuss stems from our own experience with the illness and in no way suggests a comprehensive understanding of PTSD and its profound impact on a life. What we can do is look at our own stories and our struggles to come to terms with the consequences of terror and abuse. In our battles for recovery, trauma is a mighty towering foe. Now, here are our objectives. Number one, to inform and educate as to causes and symptoms of trauma. Number two, to present treatment options. Number three, to examine PTSD and recovery through our own stories of hope.
Valerie Milburn: Trauma can be a dark subject. You and I were a bit overwhelmed at first as we prepared for this episode, right, Helen?
Helen Sneed: Oh, absolutely.
Valerie Milburn: We were soon, however, brought to deep gratitude for the gift of overcoming our trauma and for our lives in recovery with Post Traumatic Stress disorder. We want to strongly emphasize point out that the research shows that the vast majority of people who experience trauma do not develop Post Traumatic Stress disorder. We ask our listeners to please keep that in mind as we discuss this heavy topic of trauma
Valerie Milburn: and Post Traumatic stress disorder. When we tackle complex topics such as today's, we like to have a mental health professional join us. As our listeners know, Helen, you and I are not trained mental health professionals. We are experts only in our own experience and we are good researchers. Our guest for this Part two and for Part one conversation on trauma and PTSD is Sange Amara. Sange is a licensed clinical social worker. She attended the University of Texas School of Social Work, receiving a Master of Science in Social work degree in 1989. Since the beginning of Sange's social work career, her experience has been primarily with trauma survivors, and we are privileged to have her with us today to share her knowledge and experience of working with those trauma survivors. Her exploration of ways to effectively treat trauma without further injury to the individual led Sangay to be trained in 1996 in eye movement desensitization and reprocessing therapy, most often referred to as emdr. We will be thoroughly discussing EMDR later. Sangay said that her experience with trauma survivors shaped her therapeutic philosophy and also taught her the importance of a safe and collaborative relationship in the healing process. Now I know that about Sangay firsthand. Our EMDR therapy together brought me to an entirely new level of healing from my trauma experiences and did so in an incredibly safe and collaborative relationship where I felt honored for my recovery work and successes. I'm incredibly grateful to Sange for that. Now let's jump into part two. Trauma and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder I can't believe I beat it. It seems like now is a good time to look at treatment methods because treatment methods were necessary to change the trajectory of both of our Journeys. And the first one we want to look at is education and information about ptsd, because that is something we can all do for ourselves and was instrumental to recovery for both of us. The more I. Yes.
Sange Omara: Zandra, can I add something about Helen? Helen, you got into a classic abusive relationship with this doctor.
Helen Sneed: Yes, I did. I did.
Sange Omara: And you were set up for that because of your history. And you weren't able to identify warning signs, warning signals about inappropriate boundaries. So this wasn't your fault.
Helen Sneed: Yeah. It took me a long time to know you're. Thank you for saying that, because it was. It just was. You know, I want my years back. Yeah. Because it was. I got sicker than I think, than I ever had to. But no, it was. It was just wrong and it was. It was a disaster. But I stayed because, again, that's what an abuse victim does. You stay. Right. You don't know how to pull yourself out and blame yourself, you know?
Sange Omara: Right. And when you meet somebody with whom you feel a sense of connection and that, oh, this person understands me, this person who's listening to me, sees me, that we. We tend to want to trust that person without knowing what are those warning signs.
Helen Sneed: Right.
Sange Omara: Yeah. Yeah. So that is an example of how we can get stuck in these. I loved what you said. The rusty railroad tracks.
Helen Sneed: Right.
Sange Omara: So I'm going to give another way of looking at that. Memory networks. Because trauma. Trauma sets up memory networks, and this is what we deal with in emdr, and we'll talk more about that, is that we all have these memory networks that get set down early on, and this is stuff that's familiar to us. And because of the familiarity, it feels like home. And so then we tend to migrate towards what feels like home, even though home may not be safe. So I think in aa, they have a saying. It's like if you meet somebody and you feel like you've known them your whole life and you're attracted to them, they say, turn around and run the opposite direction as fast as you can.
Helen Sneed: Wish I had.
Sange Omara: Because when somebody feels like home,
Sange Omara: that's familiar. That's what we know. But it isn't necessarily safe or what's good for us. So I just wanted to. I just really wanted to say that to you, Helen, and let you know, you know what? This is what you got set up for those old, rusty railroad tracks. Those memory networks led you right to this person, and you learned what you needed to learn, and you got away. And I love that you were able to say, I'm going to prove you Wrong.
Valerie Milburn: I know. I love that, too.
Sange Omara: And you did.
Valerie Milburn: Thank you so much. That's great insight.
Helen Sneed: It really is. Thank you. Yeah, it's good to hear.
Valerie Milburn: Thank you. We're going to go on to treatment methods, but before we do, I want to talk just for a second, about education and information and how important it is to get that about PTSD in order to live in recovery. Because that is something. Getting information and education, that we can all do, and it was instrumental in recovery for both of us. Helen. I know the more education and information I gained about trauma, the more I understood the impact it had had on my mental health. And the more skills I learned, the better I was able to cope with and reduce the triggers and the flashbacks.
Helen Sneed: Yes, I did quite a bit of reading, and it was always helpful, you know, again, validating, if nothing else, you know. Do you go, I have this totally bizarre behavior, and it turns out that it's a very typical sympt, and that would make me feel better. But what I did learn is that understanding did not bring about healing. And so it was a revelation to finally know what it meant and what the symptoms were. But I had a long way to go that. And I did. I couldn't comprehend that.
Valerie Milburn: Right, right. So treatment methods. The first one we want to look at is emdr. And Sangay, you got the lead on this one. Okay.
Sange Omara: I love emdr. I could talk about it for the next three days, probably. EMDR stands for Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing. EMDR is a treatment modality. It's not a technique. It's an actual therapy that allows the brain to harness its innate healing capacity. So remember, the brain is an organ in the body, and just like every other organ in the body, every other part of the body, it's capable of healing. And what EMDR does is to activate this innate healing mechanism whereby the brain can begin to reprocess and metabolize and digest old stuck memories. So remember, let's go back to the definition of trauma. And I think early on I said that when people start to feel overwhelmed and they just can't move on with their lives, this traumatic incident or series of incidents seems to hold them back. Helen has referred to it in talking about the symptoms of ptsd, the symptoms of complex trauma. Basically, what happens is these experiences, when they're inadequately processed, get stuck in our brains and our nervous systems, so that when we get triggered and we begin to behave and think and feel as if we were back there or, oh, the same kind of thing. Is happening, then that is an indication of the stuckness or the lack of adequate processing that has not occurred. So what EMDR does is it allows the brain to reprocess, metabolize and digest those old stuck experiences so that they move through the brain and nervous system and then are placed in long term memory so that that unprocessed experience incident series of experiences are now reprocessed. They're able to go into long term memory and they don't carry the emotional impact that they have. And we also don't
Sange Omara: think about ourselves or what happened to us in the same way as before emdr. So those experiences no longer run us. They no longer drive our behaviors or the way we think and feel about ourselves or the world around us. So that's a very quick and dirty explanation of.
Helen Sneed: It's a great explanation.
Valerie Milburn: It's a wonderful explanation. And I just have to say that nothing helped me more in learning to live in recovery with PTSD than my work with you in EMDR therapy.
Sange Omara: I'm really glad to hear that.
Helen Sneed: Yeah.
Valerie Milburn: It was just freeing. So freeing.
Sange Omara: Yeah.
Helen Sneed: Can I ask a question?
Sange Omara: Sure.
Helen Sneed: It's so interesting. It's fascinating to hear about this and also I think very encouraging because it's helps people so tremendously. But Valerie, from your point of view, is there something about EMDR that you think we should know as well?
Valerie Milburn: Well, it's just so practical.
Sange Omara: Things actually change. Yes.
Valerie Milburn: Had an ongoing nightmare that had been happening for literally weekly, multi time, multiple times weekly for more than 20 years that just stopped. I have not had the nightmare again. I had had body memories that had been triggered by an exit on the freeway. Every time I went by the exit, my body memories were triggered. The body memories stopped. I mean, it's practical, tangible results as well as the freeing memory changes. It's. I mean, that's. Yes, I would like people to know that about emdr and that's how it works.
Helen Sneed: Yeah. No, I know how much it's helped you and I so wish I had ever had it. But who knows? Maybe Sanke, maybe I'll come your way, knock on your door someday. Who knows?
Sange Omara: You know, I would be happy to see you. And Valerie, you talked about a couple of things and I'd like to give a little bit more about emdr. So first of all, it's not like traditional therapy. It's not talk therapy. Now initially we do have conversations when it comes to the history taking and preparation for emdr, then yes, we do have a conversation. We actually get down to doing EMDR it's very structured. We have what we call a standard protocol that consists of eight phases. That's what we do is we adhere to this particular protocol and it addresses in every experience. There are eight components to every single experience we have throughout our daily lives. Those eight components consist of all five of our senses. Sight, smell, taste, touch and hearing and emotions. Sad, hopeless, fear, anger, shame. So those are emotions, body sensations. What you just were referring to, Valerie. And then what we call the explicit part of a memory. And that means the memories that happen in the cortex of the brain, that is the narrative, the story that we can tell here is the memory. I was three and a half years old. My mother was taking my siblings to school. I was left with my infant brother. So there's that story. And then there are images, there are thoughts that go along with it. So that's, that's the other. That's the eighth component. When we clear, when we begin to reprocess and clear out memories, it clears out all eight of those components. So you talked about body memories, Valerie, you had experiences, sensations in your body without the explicit, without the, the thoughts, without the images, without. Or you may have had thoughts that went along with it, but no images, no specific memory. These are body memories, and this is what makes people crazy. What's happening to me? I'm feeling all of this stuff, but I don't know what it's attached to. I don't know why this is going on. So those are body memories. And we can clear body memories without an individual knowing. What is it attached to? You know, like, oh, well, I don't
Sange Omara: remember any of this stuff. It's okay. You don't have to remember. You don't have to have an explicit memory. You don't have to have a story or an image. We can clear whatever the distress is in your organism because the brain knows exactly what needs to happen. It knows exactly what it needs to do in order to clear and to heal. It's quite common that people can have a body memory. The somatic components we target that, we address it, we clear it. And in the doing of the emdr. Oh, I just had this, this image. I. I just had this thought. I, I just. Now I remember something. And that's part of the beauty of the brain, is that when the brain knows exactly what to do and when your system can tolerate this part of the memory, it comes up, it makes itself known. We continue to reprocess it, and it's moved through.
Valerie Milburn: It's amazing. Yeah, it's Just a brilliant therapy. And saying the brain is beautiful and amazing is quite the understatement. Incredible part of our body. Helen, I think now, after we're talking about body memories, is a great time to go on to the next treatment method of body work.
Helen Sneed: Yes. I've been sitting here comparing the two because I have had a great deal of bodywork, and it was incredibly arduous and painful. But body work was a major turning point for me, even though I really couldn't see it for a long time. As we talked about, trauma is stored within the body. It's in your central nervous system as well as lodged in your mind and memory, and it is as fresh as the day it happened. So trauma affects the body physically, which you guys were just saying. And I had to learn to describe what my body was feeling. Sensations, not thoughts. So I would say, oh, I'm feeling afraid. And the therapist would say, no, no, no, what are you feeling? And I'd say, oh, I'm feeling sick to my stomach. That's the difference. And so I worked for years with a trainee, a disciple, I guess I would call it, of Peter A. Levine, who has been a. I think not just a pioneer, but a visionary in the area of body work, a leader in the field. His method, which I had, is based on the belief that the trauma can be released from the body, but it must be in small increments. That's called titration. And never in a big explosion. However, touch for me is a very dangerous thing, and I was re traumatized during body work on numerous occasions. So I just never knew what to expect when I got there. But I know now that I wouldn't have recovered without it. Bodywork was more effective for me than talk therapy at actually releasing the trauma from my body and hence from my mind.
Valerie Milburn: Another treatment method is medication. The therapeutic goals of pharmacological therapy are to decrease intrusive thoughts and images and to help with avoidance, hyperarousal, hypervigilance, irritability and anger and depression. And Sanjay, did you have some comments on medication?
Sange Omara: Actually, I had some comments on Peter Levine.
Helen Sneed: I know that you can have a strong reaction either way.
Sange Omara: No, no, no. I love Peter Levine. So Peter Levine started out as an ethnologist. He was a scientist. He studied animals. He is the one who says, we're mammals. And in studying mammals and in fear responses and terror responses that animals exhibited in the wild, this is how he ended coming up with somatic experiencing. He began to notice how animals don't remain traumatized. He's just absolutely brilliant. And he describes this in his book Waking the Tiger. He's phenomenal. He is just a delightful human being and exquisite trainer. And yes, somatic experiencing is marvelous. The other thing I wanted to mention when your body worker was saying, no, no, tell me what you feel in your body. One of the primary things. Let's go back to ptsd. One of the big hallmarks of PTSD is avoidance. Avoidance. This reminds me. Nope, can't. Nope, I ain't going there. So
Sange Omara: what happens is we stay out of our bodies. One of the ways to avoid remembering or being around what has happened is we bump out of our bodies. So dissociation, that's a complete escape from the body via the brain. But we can avoid our bodies by shutting down, and we just stay in our heads and think. So when your therapist invites you or instructs you to get into your body, you can no longer avoid. You can't escape. And so here's the beautiful thing about facing and being in the body and experiencing is that, and we do this in EMDR as well, is we maintain dual awareness. I'm here now. I'm in my body. Ooh, I don't like what's happening to me. I don't like how it's feeling. And I'm also here with you, my therapist, who is providing support and providing a presence of calm and, oh, guess what? It's not the past, it's now. So it's that dual awareness of knowing what's happening inside you at any given moment, being able to recognize, I'm not back there. I'm here now with you. Experiencing support that helps settle the brain as well. That shifts brain functioning. Shifting brain functioning in EMDR also shifts the structure of the brain.
Helen Sneed: Well, I had a lot of shifting to do.
Sange Omara: Yes.
Valerie Milburn: Let me just re emphasize the importance of the safe and collaborative relationship in therapy. The next thing we want to talk about is medication treatment method. The therapeutic goal of medication is to decrease intrusive thoughts and images and to decrease avoidance, hyperarousal, hypervigilance, irritability, and anger and depression. And drug therapies have generally been most effective in decreasing hyperarousal and mood symptoms such as irritability, anger, and depression. Depression. I know that was true for me, and medication helped me tremendously. Getting on the right mood stabilizer was a game changer. As my manic episode stopped, the road to finding the right mood stabilizer was long and arduous. But achieving the right mix to go along with that mood stabilizer literally stopped My manic episodes and being stable allowed me to build a routine, to focus on my mental and physical health, to be calm. And the ability to be calm was huge for me. The most important thing about medication, though, was sobriety, because psychiatric drugs do not work when mixed with alcohol and street drugs. Duh. Until I got sober, my mental health did not improve much, no matter what treatment methods I tried. For me, sobriety was just the bottom line.
Helen Sneed: Yes. Well, for me, medication, you know, it's. It Again, it's a controversial thing because some people say that it masks the trauma and you shouldn't use it. Well, forget about that. My illnesses had been drug resistant for many, many years, and sometimes a medication would help with a symptom, such as insomnia, but Nothing addressed the PTSD until a new medication that I was given in 2015. I went quite a long ways with no help since then. When I'm triggered, it helps reduce the severity of my emotional response, and I can return again to a reasonable baseline in a reasonable amount of time. It doesn't prevent the trauma cycle, but it dramatically reduces its impact. I. I'll be on medication the rest of my life because it is that effective.
Sange Omara: Right. And medication helps stabilize the nervous system so that you can do the work.
Valerie Milburn: Exactly.
Helen Sneed: Exactly.
Sange Omara: So that you can go about the business of having a life and then do the work that then can allow the healing. Medication does not make one happy. It's not designed to erase trauma. That's not what it does. You get stabilized, you can live a life, and then you get to do your work.
Valerie Milburn: Exactly.
Helen Sneed: Now, I was too symptomatic for so long that I could not get the work done. Medication, all of a sudden, it was like an Old Testament miracle. It was wonderful.
Sange Omara: Beautiful.
Helen Sneed: Anyway, another thing that we've discussed but is
Helen Sneed: looked on as an important treatment method is talk therapy. Now, I've kind of gotten into mine, and so I. Again, the validation and the education were very helpful. But besides that, it kind of reached a point where I hit a wall. So, Valerie, I know you've had a very different experience.
Valerie Milburn: Yes, talk therapy has been the cornerstone of my recovery in general. But recovering from the trauma and learning to live in recovery with post traumatic stress disorder required additional treatment methods beyond talk therapy. And my psychiatrist, with whom I do talk therapy, coordinated my trauma treatment with other mental health professionals.
Helen Sneed: Well, I was in a number of trauma groups, so in terms of group therapy, I cannot praise it enough. It was incredibly beneficial, again, to be with people in the same boat with this very, very profound and insidious illness and to get the support. And I think the most important thing for me was understanding, just to be understood as opposed to someone thinking, boy, she's weird or she's crazy or whatever. The other thing that we don't want to overlook, of course, is humor. We laughed in those groups again. It was wonderful. I recommend group therapy highly.
Valerie Milburn: Cognitive behavioral therapy is another treatment that has been found to be effective for ptsd. Cognitive behavioral therapy focuses on the relationships among thoughts, feelings and behaviors and notes how changes in any one of those can improve functioning in the others. Well, for example, altering a person's unhelpful thinking can lead to healthier behaviors and improved emotion regulation. Cognitive behavioral therapy helped me in this way.
Helen Sneed: All right, well, here I am again with dialectical behavior therapy dbt. And it is also a source of controversy with some people who think that it does not help with ptsd. But all I know is that my experience has been fabulous. I couldn't have made it without it. The mindfulness that I learned through DBT works with soothing the traumatic memories. And the skills such as breathing and self talk help me pull out of the traumatic memories so that I'm not devoured by them. It minimizes the horrible emotions and it helped me stay in touch with my body. And so this also means that it helped with dissociation. It helped me come back. Yes. Oh, sorry.
Sange Omara: Yeah. Something I want to say, Helen, you mentioned DBT is controversial. Something else was controversial and what is important and something that you said is that this really helped me. DBT really helped me. And this is what we all get to do as consumers of mental health services, as trauma survivors. Trust your experience and hopefully when you get the right kind of therapy, you learn that you can Trust yourself. You can trust your experience if it's working for you, if it's helping you, trust that.
Helen Sneed: And you know, what you're saying is so interesting to me because one of the things that I had to learn the most was to trust myself. Yes. And to stand up for myself if I felt, you know, whatever. So you're absolutely right. So another thing that Valerie and I have both been through is hospitalization. And for
Helen Sneed: me, the hospitals that I was in, they really weren't equipped to deal with ptsd. But it was, it was, it was a new field in those days and. But as I said, it kept me from killing myself. Very important and provided much needed structure and proximity to people, which have always been my salvation. But I did receive really no help or sometimes even acknowledgement of ptsd. And I was often told that it was that I actually had borderline personality disorder, which I do. But they weren't very helpful with that either. Even when I was in a small trauma hospital, there was little help because the patients there who had those extreme and self destructive dissociation, which can be very, very violent, took up all the staff time. And so the rest of us patients just kind of helped take care of them.
Valerie Milburn: I had a very positive experience with my trauma hospital stays because I was fortunate to get to go to a trauma hospital. And I went twice for a total of nine weeks and it was extremely helpful. My five other psychiatric hospital stays were a mixed bag and didn't focus on trauma at all. But I will say that all my hospitalizations came when I needed safety from myself. Now at the trauma hospital, I participated in numerous treatment methods, talk therapy, group therapy, drama, music and art therapy that were targeted to trauma treatment in that particular trauma hospitals protocol. Much of this therapy was confrontational and difficult. I remember one assignment from my therapist that was incredibly hard to do and almost debilitating when we reviewed it together. I had been asked to do a sexual history, which was difficult, difficult, difficult to do. And then when we reviewed it, my therapist had a red pen. And as we went through it, he would write in the column abuse over some of the things I'd written down as my history. And these were abusive sexual events, but I had not identified them as that as such. And that was really hard to bring into my brain that amount of abuse. But I gained the knowledge and skills that were valuable then and are valuable now. Many years into recovery.
Sange Omara: I keep thinking about that red pen.
Valerie Milburn: Yeah.
Helen Sneed: Yeah. It's quite an image.
Sange Omara: Yes.
Valerie Milburn: I was wondering, I never graded in red.
Sange Omara: Right.
Valerie Milburn: Green or Purple, right?
Sange Omara: Yeah. And you know, one thing about abuse, for abuse survivors to learn that, to have somebody say, oh, well, that's. Abuse can be really shocking.
Valerie Milburn: Very.
Sange Omara: It can be like, whoa, what. What are you talking about? That didn't happen to me. I'm. I'm just a crazy person. It's. It's sort of. Well, it does make it real, which can then depending on how we're wired and how we think about ourselves. You know, if you were a strong, brave soldier, Valerie, learning that you were abused might have really shaken how you saw yourself. And coming to terms with, I was severely abused. It can take a little while.
Valerie Milburn: It did.
Helen Sneed: You kind of have an identity crisis, right?
Sange Omara: Yeah.
Helen Sneed: Who am I? Wait a minute. What do you mean, abuse?
Valerie Milburn: Yeah, it's kind of. It's summed up rather flippantly in the phrase, the truth shall set you free, but first it will p*** you off.
Sange Omara: Yes.
Valerie Milburn: So here are some things now that we've gone through the treatment methods about how to help yourself during treatment, how to help yourself while in treatment. First of all, talk with your doctors about the treatment options. Engage in mild physical activity or exercise to help reduce stress. Set realistic goals for yourself. You can go back and listen to our episode on goal setting. Break up large tasks into small ones. Set some priorities. Do what you can do. Don't focus on what you can't. Try to spend some time with other people. Confide in a trusted friend or relative. Tell others about things that may trigger symptoms. This is exactly what Sange was talking about earlier. Talk about your experience. Expect your symptoms to improve gradually, not immediately. Identify and seek out comforting situations, places and people.
Helen Sneed: Well, Valerie,
Helen Sneed: I always think it's great advice to get this kind of help, but I'm curious because what did you do to help yourself during treatment? Because I know that you had to sort of take things in your own hands.
Valerie Milburn: Right, right. And there was something that triggered my fight for recovery. And that was the third major traumatic event that I want to share now because it was actually the beginning of my fight for my recovery. It was a five year fight, but I made it. When I was 34, I had that other major dissociative episode I want to share. It was the first time a dissociative episode was diagnosed. It was diagnosed by a neurologist after I was admitted overnight for testing into the hospital after an emergency room visit. I had been taken to the ER after being found curled up on the bathroom floor of my workplace. I was found basically paralyzed with the voice crashing in my ear. Saying, I can't, I can't, I can't. And I had dissociated. During this episode, I had again left my body and I was again watching what was going on from the corner of the ceiling. And this dissociative, dissociative episode terrified me again and brought me back to the trauma of the event when I was three and a half. And you know what? It was a red flag to how sick I was. And after this episode, I first went into a downward spiral, drinking and drugging more. I lost my career and I eventually hit bottom when I attempted suicide. I began to fight for my recovery. I began to do everything that was suggested by my psychiatrist and the rest of my treatment team, my support team. That's when I went to the hosp, the trauma hospital for this first time. I went to biofeedback therapy, which taught me how to calm myself. I started going to Alcoholics Anonymous and I began my slow, painful process of getting sober. Thus, my psychiatric medications slowly started to work. As I slowly got sober and at the near insistence of my psychiatrist, I went back to work. After 18 months of not working, went back to work at a low stress, part time, really non stressful, part time job. This allowed me to add structure and routine to my life, things that have always been necessary for my sanity. I saw my psychiatrist and trauma therapist once a week and I had EMDR therapy for the first time. I began to heal.
Helen Sneed: Amazing how you were able to start putting it together. And as usual, it sounds. You make it sound as if the sobriety was so key.
Valerie Milburn: Key?
Helen Sneed: Yeah, I mean, just a fundamental. You can't really get very far without it.
Valerie Milburn: Right now I know you have a part of your journey you would like to share. Now is also a turning point.
Helen Sneed: Yes, this is what I was able to do finally for myself. I had a lot of help, but I was in a terrible, terrible way. And this is what happened. I found this very inspirational quote from Carl Jung. He said, I am not what happened to me. I am what I choose to become. Now, that seemed impossible for the longest period of time, but it is an inspiration and something that I think about often. Now, can I choose what I want to become? But first I thought I would walk through a typical trauma episode in my life because people ask me all the time, what is it like? They don't quite understand what it's like to have ptsd. Here's an example. Okay. It's a cold winter's day in New York City when I go to a specialist for an examination. The doctor was a man, and I typically go to women only after the appointment. As I hurry home in the cold, it becomes dark. I feel so proud of myself for getting the invasive exam done successfully. It was something I'd put off for years due to shame and fear and the usual self doubt. I stopped at Columbus Circle and cut through the Time Warner building for warmth. And suddenly I am waylaid by flashbacks so intense that I double over. I feel as if the trauma inside me is too great for me to hold and that it will explode and kill me. I literally think my life is in danger. It's difficult even to walk, so I stagger the two blocks to my building, stumble past the doorman, and up the elevator. I'm shaking and crying so hard it's difficult to unlock my door. Inside, I fall to the floor of my
Helen Sneed: foyer, unable to move. I am frozen. I feel as if I'm drowning in a vat of pure terror, and I disappear into it until all I know is agony. I have ceased to exist. I can't move for hours, but finally get my phone from my purse and call my therapist. And thank God she answers. After this episode, I wasn't able to leave my bedroom for several days. So that's kind of what it's like. And I'm going to mention some of the things, and I don't want to be repetitive, but there is dbt, and I used it first because in getting out of the trauma of this failed therapy, it was all I had to fall back on. And it worked. I got a new therapist. I couldn't see it at the time, but I felt safe with her. And what I came to realize is that it's something I did get myself away from someone of enormous power who had begun to abuse me, which was again, a stepping major, major turning point I couldn't see at the time. My journal sustained me through 40 years, and with it I dealt with the feelings and the memories. And it also helps with dissociation. It would help to bring me back. I got my eating disorder under control and I lost 90 pounds. Exercise became essential because it helped me discharge the trauma in my mind and body. And I just flat out love it. I tried acupuncture and drumming, and they both were great for my body and to release the tension. And I loved them. Then I mentioned medication. It just helped alleviate the severity of the triggering in the cycle so that I could get work done in therapy outpatient groups. Well, here was a major setback. I have to tell this story. My new therapist found A very promising program at Bellevue, which many of you probably know is the most notorious mental hospital in New York City and maybe in the country. I went in and the head of the department interviewed me with a couple of his staff members. At the end, he looked at me and he said, helen, I can't take you in this program. He said, I have to think of my staff and my trainees. They couldn't handle you. I walked out of there and I thought, I have been turned away from Bellevue for being too sick. This is a really bad. It was, it was. I'm laughing now, but it was so.
Valerie Milburn: So devastating, I'm sure.
Helen Sneed: Yeah. So then job counseling. This was. I just lucked into this incredible place. It was a superb job program combined with DBT and I don't think it had ever been done before. And it was designed for people with borderline personality disorder, which I have. So. But it was a medical major turning point because again, people and structure and responsibilities, it was wonderful. And then a part time job which I, when I was finally ready at the Drama bookshop and this wonderful institution in New York. But it was very difficult for me because I felt like I was no longer at the top of my field and my ego really got in the way and my pride. And a lot of it just had to do with, you know, just, you know, no self confidence. But when I got over it, I came to love that job and I did it for five years. And then I mentioned body work. This is just a little update on it. I stopped for a while after several years and then I returned to it for a time because it had been liberating from the trauma. But as I've said, and then it caused a whole lot more trauma. So I finally became convinced that I didn't need to take it anymore, that I knew what I was doing and that I was living in my body and I knew what I was doing. And this led to another bad break with a therapist because she thought I should stay. And so she became very sort of combative and it's really just verbally abusive. And it was a terrible, terrible parting of the ways. But again, I did get away. And again I rescued my body from someone with too much power over me who had become angry and abusive. I took myself out of the hands of the perpetrator and this was incredibly important. And so I. I took control of my body for the first time in my life. And I remember I was walking down Broadway one day, not feeling too good, and this thought came to mind. Your body is strong. It will bear you through this, which was just I, I, it was a miracle to me. And then, I don't know, some weeks later, I was on the bus on a beautiful day. I was hanging from the pole. And this thought came to my mind. My body belongs to me. My body belongs to me. And I realized that it did for the first time in my life. And so that's the debt I owe to body work.
Valerie Milburn: That's wonderful and such a gift. Those thoughts came to you and that you started down
Valerie Milburn: that road of healing. And I love again to listen to your story because it's so full of hope and work. You did so much work. I want to spend just a little bit of time giving some advice to those who are supporting someone with risk with someone with Post Traumatic stress disorder. And these are from the Mayo Clinic. And it's just a couple of quick tips. Be willing to listen. Don't push someone to talk, though. Choose a time to talk. Kind of set a date so everyone's ready. Recognize when to take a break from talking or from each other. Get help immediately. Get help immediately. If talk of suicide occurs. Learn about Post Traumatic Stress disorder from trusted medical sources and encourage your loved one to follow treatment recommendations. Be aware that coping with trauma is is an ongoing process with no specific time frame for recovery. And last but not least, take care of yourself. Now let's focus from here on out on recovery. We're going to wrap up with our information about recovery and the last of our personal journeys that end in our lives in recovery. Helen?
Helen Sneed: Yes. I'm so glad we're getting to recovery because this is the positive part of our discussion today. Judith Herman said that there were three stages of recovery. Safety, remembrance and mourning. And that's M O U R N I N G and reconnection. We've already talked about the difficulties of snapping that connection. Everyone, Herman, everybody that we've worked with and including Valerie and myself. Recovery and treatment is never linear. These are not simple steps. What I found is much of recovery is based on circling back. It's more of a cyclical and you come back and you revisit this. Maybe the same trauma, but it diminishes the intensity of the response. And then you're able to move forward again, just circling around it in a spiral. Here is the first one. Safety. The world is a dangerous and terrifying place for someone with ptsd. We've established that establishing safety can be difficult and time consuming. First, the person needs to establish a trusting relationship with therapist if at all possible. Then there Are all these other factors a safe place to live, supportive people, financial security, medication, symptom reduction, healthy food and exercise, all these aspects of living that are needed to protect a person. An important goal, maybe the most important one for me was to learn to be safe with myself and my body. The second is remembrance and mourning. This is what we've been talking about. In order to recover, the individual must tell his or her story in detail, merging the mental memory with the true physical sensations and trauma. This is the path to full integration of the unspeakable when it is told and felt simultaneously. Once the person sees and experiences the full impact of the trauma on his or her life, there follows a period of intense and often prolonged mourning and grieving over the damage, pain and God knows, over the lost years. It's inevitable to look back at what might have been. Third is reconnection, a return to relationships, community, the world, taking actions such as renewed friendships, social activities, volunteer work, a job, school, participating in life again. Now, the other great authority that I want to talk about briefly is Bessel van der Kolk, who was another sort of visionary and pioneer. And he and Judith Herman started working, worked off to have worked together for all this time, on and off. And he wrote recently a groundbreaking book and it's called the Body Always Keeps the Score. And so he's got all these cutting edge ways and techniques. Excuse me, cutting edge ways and techniques for the healing of trauma through the body, where the trauma is lodged until released. Van der Kolk says the challenge of recovery is to reestablish ownership of your body and your mind. Just what I was talking about, ownership of yourself. For most people, this involves, number one, finding a way to become calm and focused. Number two, learning to maintain that calm in response to images, thoughts
Helen Sneed: or physical sensations that remind you of the past. Number three, finding a way to be fully alive in the present and engaged with people around you. Number four, not having to keep secrets from yourself, including shame and guilt, about the ways that you have managed to survive. He is looking at the management and the access to the consequences of the emotional brain and the seed of sensation and feeling. His techniques, we've mentioned a lot of them. I just wanted to add a few. Yoga, body awareness through these fabulous new techniques in bodywork. They're just several that are really, really exciting and effective. Self defense training, which can be very great. MRI and brain imaging, we didn't even have time to get into this. But what they can do now is phenomenal in terms of understanding the brain. You can watch the Trauma on a screen happen in a brain, and it's already having such an impact on treatment, positive treatment for people, and then drumming and movement, but mainly with Van der Kolk, as with everyone else, it's taking action, regaining ownership of yourself, and creating a fulfilling, meaningful life.
Valerie Milburn: That's such hopeful information you've shared.
Helen Sneed: Really is.
Valerie Milburn: It's a great time to hear the recovery part of your journey, Helen.
Helen Sneed: Okay. I came across something that Mark Twain said that reminds me a lot of recovering from trauma and how to live with it. And he said, courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not the absence of fear. And you can really kind of put the word trauma in there for fear. So I also first want to start with saying this has been a long journey that we've taken together today, and we want to thank you for being here and for sticking with us until now, for the good news. So where am I today? Is PTSD an active part of my life? And where did the trauma end up? You know, where did it go? Well, first of all, I seldom think about the abuse, the symptoms, or the endless disruptions of my life over decades. Seldom is it in the forefront of my mind because I now try to live one day at a time. And I know full well that the past could kill me if I let. Has been difficult to revisit PTSD for this episode, but my initial response may surprise you. My first reaction has been, I can't believe I got over it. I can't believe it. It's a sense of joy and jubilation as I looked back and saw how I came to overcome the unspeakable. I can't believe I overcame this. I mean, if I can, given the severity of childhood ptsd, then I'm incredibly optimistic for people fighting it. Today, the field has expanded almost immeasurably. More treatment methods and more weapons to do battle against trauma. Medicine and science are constantly catching up. Medication is more effective. Most importantly, I think the doctors and therapists are just plain smarter. They have an arsenal of techniques which they can use to help their patients. I can't believe that I can handle PTSD and stay in recovery. My life today consists of many strong components. Much volunteer work, my success with my first play being produced off Broadway in New York, and continuing creative projects. Public speaking, where I first felt that my old self wasn't dead and could take me places I never dreamed of. Care of my body through exercise, sleep, and my eating disorders. Manageable most of the time. Most essential. The great, great people in my life, family and Friendships, the most valuable and cherished elements of my very survival, the crown of my existence, and the foundation of sustaining recovery day by day. And yet, I've been retraumatized in each of these areas. I'm pretty skillful about anticipating events that are dangerous. Like going for the doctor, you can tell is something that I have to really pay attention to. But inevitably, something out there in the world will trigger me. You know, a smell, a sound, a person, or words from another person. So how do I handle it now? Well, first off, I know to find safety. I tell someone. I get immediate support from a therapist, a friend, anybody that I can reach. I use DBT to regulate my emotions. If need be, I can have my medications adjusted. I take good care of my body with the awareness that the trauma will affect it. I have to pay attention to that. I ground myself,
Helen Sneed: even if it requires going to bed for safety. And I tell myself, if at all possible, this will pass. This will pass. All of these things help greatly to diminish and shorten the trauma cycle so that I can return to a healthy baseline in my brain and get on with my life. Well, we all know it's not a perfect world. Recovery is never without its challenges. And for me, PTSD remains the greatest challenge. But now it's just one section of my integrated story, just a chapter. In the theater, there's a person who comes on stage and with energy and enthusiasm, galvanizes everyone. He or she is called the life force character. And I've said before, that's the one thing I most want to be. My greatest goal is to be a life force character in the lives and in the people around me, to help inspire others to enter wholeheartedly into their lives. This is the chance that recovery has given me. And PTSD can slow me down, but it can't stop me.
Valerie Milburn: Thank you, Helen. And you are a life force character. You walk into a room and just light it up.
Helen Sneed: Oh, thank you.
Valerie Milburn: Well, you do. And you are a life force for me. I call you, as you know, when I. When I need that spark put back in.
Helen Sneed: Well, now you do the same for me. And now I'm so curious to hear you talking about where you are today with all of this.
Valerie Milburn: Well, like you, I'm often astonished by my life in recovery with ptsd. And sure, I have challenges, but they are few and far between. I occasionally have ruminating thoughts of past trauma, but I have tools to stop those thoughts. If my own tools don't work, I know how to reach out for help. For example, Last year, a teenage memory came up that hit me hard and I went back to Songhai for EMDR therapy to process the memory. I did the work. I moved on in my PTSD recovery. Today, I don't have flashbacks. Seeing a label on a can in the grocery store can no longer take me to the kitchen of my childhood home into a traumatic situation. If something triggers me from a memory, I have three tools that work really well. My first defense is quick and most of the time completely effective. I say to myself, I'm remembering this, I'm not reliving it. Powerful and effective. I'm remembering this, I'm not reliving it. I can make myself think of or do something else like make a. Make a gratitude list, and the memory slips away. Early in recovery, I used additional tools to stop something from triggering me to a flashback. I would say today is January 22nd. It's 1:41. My feet are underneath me on the floor. Additionally, something cold is very helpful. Ice or even a cold soda from a vending machine or my fridge. I haven't had to use those tools in a long time. I have other strategies and skills that are part of my daily recovery plan to stay healthy while living with my mental health disorders. The foundation of my recovery is therapy, medication, and sobriety. Mindfulness, meditation, and prayer are my lifelines. I moved into a life of recovery not only through treatment, but by sharing my experience, hope and recovery with others who have similar experiences. Today, my life is full of family, friends, grandchildren, volunteer work, this podcast, the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, and actual serenity. The majority of the time, my life is no longer driven by fear and dread. These have been replaced by a sense of safety and a belief in the abundance life offers. I not only see the glass as half full, not half empty, I remember to be grateful that I have a glass. There's one more thing I'd like to share that has been pivotal for living in recovery with ptsd. A quote from Viktor Frankl expresses it beautifully. Viktor Frankl was a concentration camp survivor who wrote an amazing book, Man's Search for Meaning. Frankl wrote, we must never forget that we may also find meaning in life when confronted with a hopeless situation
Valerie Milburn: when facing a fate that cannot be changed. For what then matters is to bear witness to the uniquely human potential at its best, which is to transform a personal tragedy into a triumph.
Helen Sneed: Oh, that. That brings tears to my eyes. That's. That's gorgeous. And you know, I. I don't mean to sound self serving, but in a very, very small Way I think this is what we're trying to do with our podcast, you know, is to convert the suffering and the misery and whatever into something, something of value. Peter Levine. Peter A. Levine said trauma is h*** on earth. Trauma resolved is a gift from the gods.
Valerie Milburn: Yes.
Helen Sneed: So I have to say, I can't believe we beat it, Valerie. I can't believe it. But you know what? We did.
Valerie Milburn: We did. And we are ready to wrap up this incredible visit today. And, Sange, we just want to thank you so much for joining us. And it's just you've brought such richness to our discussion by sharing your experience and your knowledge. And thank you so much. Helen and I are incredibly grateful.
Sange Omara: Oh, you're welcome. You're welcome. Thank you. And thank you for having me. It has been such a privilege to hear both of your stories, and I just want to say you two are unstoppable. And your dedication to. To recovery and your drive for health is just so inspiring.
Helen Sneed: And, well, you know, we're the lucky ones.
Sange Omara: Yeah.
Helen Sneed: We've. Because we're here. I mean, it's a struggle to keep it sometimes, but we do live in recovery.
Sange Omara: Yeah.
Helen Sneed: You want it for other people, you know.
Sange Omara: Yeah. Yes.
Valerie Milburn: Thank you for that. Thank you for saying that.
Sange Omara: You're welcome.
Valerie Milburn: I'll close our episode with our traditional mindfulness practice. What is mindfulness? I always give a definition. Mindfulness is the practice of being hyper aware of the moment it is being in the present, acknowledging what you are thinking and feeling and accepting it without judgment. Being mindful is about immersing yourself in the present moment to the extent that you are fully aware of everything you are experiencing in that moment. Let's get mindful. If you can close your eyes, whether your eyes are open or closed, let's steady our breathing with two diaphragmatic breaths. Inhale through your nose, expanding your stomach as you inhale through your nose. For the count of five. Four, three, two, one. Now pull in your stomach as you exhale through your mouth. The count of seven. 6, 5, 4, 5, 3, 2, 1. Again, inhale through your nose, expanding your stomach as you do. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Pull in your stomach as you exhale through your mouth. 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Now say aloud 4 to 5 positive messages to yourself, such as, may I be happy, May I be healthy, May I be safe, May I be peaceful, May I be filled with compassion. Say any positive messages you need to tell yourself right now. Bask in that feeling for as long as you want to. Repeating these messages, you can stop the podcast for a bit. You'd like to try this right now and really bask in those feelings, repeating those positive messages. Know that if you stay in this mindfulness practice for long, your attention may start drifting. You can gently persuade yourself to think and feel the emotions. Embrace the feelings of self compassion. That's it. You were just mindful.
Helen Sneed: Oh thank you Valerie. I was. I did have my eyes closed and I have to get come back to business here.
Helen Sneed: That was terrific and oh many thanks to you Sangay. You have taught us so much today. And also just the generosity of you the way you just are so generous with your knowledge and with sharing your knowledge. Because this is an area and an illness where people need to be as smart as possible. This brings us to the close of our two part series PTSD and Recovery. We want to thank our listeners for being with us and for your participation and encourage you to listen to both parts about ptsd. Our next episode will address the fascinating subject of genetics and the impact of genes on mental health conditions. We'll look at the implications of nature versus nurture in treatment and recovery. Please join us. Until then, I leave you with our favorite word. Onward.