Suicidal thinking is the most dangerous aspect of mental illness. The outcome is literally the tragic possibility of a lost life. Having both survived suicide attempts, Valerie and Helen possess deep knowledge of this life or death crisis. In this episode, they offer their personal understanding of how they recovered from the hell of suicidal thinking. They will be joined by therapist Jenny Whitten, LCSW to examine methods of treatment and intervention. They’ll provide key information for the suicidal individual and for those who seek to save them. Don’t miss the chance to save a life. There is so much to learn.
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The Hell of Suicidal Thinking and Escaping It
​​Episode 7
Helen Sneed: Welcome to Mental Health, Hope and Recovery. I'm Helen Sneed.
Valerie Milburn: And I'm Valerie Milburn.
Helen Sneed: We both have fought and overcome severe mental illnesses. Our podcast offers a unique approach to mental health conditions. We use practical skills and inspirational stories of recovery. Our knowledge is up close and personal.
Valerie Milburn: Helen and I are your peers. We're not doctors, therapists or social workers. We're not professionals, but we are experts. We are experts through our own lived experience with multiple mental health diagnoses and symptoms. Please join us on our journey.
Helen Sneed: We live in recovery, so can you.
Valerie Milburn: Welcome to episode eight, the H*** of Suicidal Thinking and Escaping from It. I have to say before we get going that preparing for this episode has been difficult and has brought me to tears more than once. Given the sensitivity and volatility of the subject of suicide and our desire and the need to keep everyone safe, we have set clear objectives for this episode. Before we explain our objectives, I want to say that we have taken a deep dive with this topic and this episode will run a little bit longer than usual. Helen, you want to share our objectives?
Helen Sneed: Yes. Here are our objectives. To prevent even one person from attempting suicide to share our own journeys with suicidal ideation and attempted suicide in order to offer hope and promote recovery to provide information, tools and language to help those contemplating suicide to make a different choice to provide information, tools and language to those helping someone who is contemplating suicide to make a different choice and to share resources.
Valerie Milburn: Because of what we're talking about today, I think it's good to put out a couple of reminders that this podcast does not provide medical advice. The information presented is not intended to be a substitute or relied upon as medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. This podcast is for informational purposes only. Please remember to always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any health related questions you may have. Now today we have a guest again. We are joined by Jenny Whitten. Jenny is a licensed clinical social worker who has been in private practice here in Austin, Texas for 25 years. Jenny is going to join our conversation after Helen and I share our journey with today's topic of suicidal thinking. And I'll tell you more about Jenny's background when she joins us later. But for now, I want to say that in addition to Jenny's credentials as a therapist, Jenny is my dear and much loved friend. Jenny and I met as kindergarten moms when our sons became friends. 29 years later, now our sons are still friends and Jenny and her husband and my husband and I are all the closest of friends. Jenny and her husband were with me through my darkest times. They supported my entire family in more ways than I can count. And since then we have celebrated in just as many ways, including three weddings and six grandchildren. Jenny, Helen and I are honored to have you
Valerie Milburn: with us today. Welcome.
Helen Sneed: It's great to have you.
Speaker A: Thank you so much for having me. I am so, so honored to be here and be a part of this process. Thank you.
Valerie Milburn: Welcome again, Jenny.
Helen Sneed: Okay, so let's begin with some background on suicide in our society today. The statistics are overwhelming and we're going to give just a few to bring home the severity of the issue. Suicide is the second leading cause of death for those between the ages of 10 and 24. It is the 10th leading cause of death in the overall US population and the numbers are increasing at an alarming rate. Between 1999 to 2018, the suicide rate in the US rose 32%. This according to the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline.
Valerie Milburn: Those are quite, I don't even know the words. Those statistics really make the episode we are putting forth today even more, more, more important.
Helen Sneed: I think.
Valerie Milburn: So there are some risk factors. Suicide risk factors are well documented and the ones we are sharing right now are from the Joint Commission on the Prevention of Suicide. And these are some of the suicide risk factors that are agreed upon by all the experts in this field. And they are mental or emotional disorders is one of the leading risk factors. Previous suicide attempts or self injury is another risk factor. A history of trauma or loss such as abuse as a child, family history of suicide or economic loss, serious illness or physical or chronic pain or impairment. Another risk factor, alcohol and drug abuse, social isolation or a pattern of aggressive or antisocial behavior, discharge from inpatient Psychiatric care within the first year after, and particularly within the first weeks and months after discharge is a risk factor. And last access to lethal means with suicidal thoughts is a risk factor.
Helen Sneed: It can be quite dangerous out there. Now, I know that a number of people don't really know what suicidal ideation means. I wasn't so sure myself. Here are a couple of definitions to start with. Suicidal ideation is thinking about considering or planning suicide. That's from the center for Disease Control. Suicidal ideation is thoughts of serving as the agent of one's own death. Suicidal ideation may vary in seriousness depending on the specificity of suicidal plans and the degree of suicidal intent. That's from the American Psychiatric Association. Valerie, you and I both have our.
Speaker A: Own.
Helen Sneed: Experiences, very close experiences with this subject. I wonder, do you want to go ahead and talk about yours?
Valerie Milburn: Yes, I will share my journey. And a quote by Winston Churchill helps describe my years of recurrent suicidal thinking. And Churchill said, if you are going through h***, keep going. Now, I know Churchill meant this as a motivational statement, meaning, if you are going through a hellish period in your life, keep fighting. But for me, it felt like the h*** itself kept going. For years, I had thoughts of suicide, of thinking if I did that, I would die. One of the definitions we gave said that suicidal ideation varied in seriousness depending on the degree of suicidal intent. Well, all but once the intention didn't materialize into a suicide attempt. But I was living in a mental h***. These thoughts of wanting to die were with me not only during the years I was depressed to the point of barely getting out of bed for days and days on end, not only when I was barely eating, not showering, not interacting with my family or with anyone else. These suicidal thoughts were also with me when I appeared to be functioning well. When I was getting up each day and showering. I mean, I was going to work being a loving mom and a member of my family. But I would still think as I was driving down the highway, I would think if I turned into that embankment, I would die. As I heard the train from far away, as I lay in bed at night, I would think
Valerie Milburn: I could lay myself down on that track. It was a hellish way to live. Now, this is hard to talk about, so I'm imagining it could be hard to listen to. But this recurrent suicidal thinking did stop for me. And I promise we will get to our recovery stories soon.
Helen Sneed: Well, thank you, Valerie, for being so candid. You have a lot of integrity to be talking about this. So honestly, my obsession with Suicide is almost as old as I am. I was far too young to be told about it, only six. I was too young to fully understand it. But I knew that I would have to kill myself if I didn't fix myself so that someone would love me. Even at that age, I was convinced that I was repulsive and unlovable. A belief that never went away even when I grew up as an adult. During the years of mental illnesses, suicide was my constant companion. I had a plan, the means, and figured it was just a matter of time. When the urges became very strong. I had the compulsion to kill myself in the moment with whatever means were at hand. Like once I almost drove my car off a bridge. This was different from thinking about it. I was dangerously close to doing it. My head exploded with different ways to end my life. I never reached out for help when the urges became acute. Instead, I tell my therapist after the fact. The same was true during my hospitalizations. I was so afraid of restraints that I never spoke of how suicidal I was. Suicide was a lethal barrier between me and my ability to live life fully. When I was suicidal, I felt completely apart from the human race, beyond the reach of humanity. All I could think about was death as a cure for unbearable pain. It seemed as if I was being punished for a crime I couldn't possibly have committed. I reached the point where I hated being alive. It was just a matter of time before I'd be brave enough to kill myself. My old self was dead. I could never get it back. It was time to die and to end my ugly story.
Valerie Milburn: Helen, I know that wasn't easy. And my heart breaks for the pain you lived in for so long. And I'm grateful your story didn't end before you conquered that pain.
Helen Sneed: Thank you.
Valerie Milburn: Now, there did come a moment when my emotional pain became so great that I did try to take my own life. In the moment that I attempted suicide, I truly felt as though I was such an immense burden on my family that it would be better off if I was gone. I hadn't held a job in more than a year, and my illness was causing a financial burden on my family. I was a financial burden. I was an emotional burden. I was every kind of burden in my mind. I had been in and out of the hospital six times already. On the day I attempted suicide, I had barely left my bed for a week. And these periods of days and days in bed had been going on for more than a year. But with the impact that my suicide attempt had on my family, I wish with all my heart that I had reached out for help just one more time in that moment that I had made the decision to hold on and ask for help rather than give up. Knowing the pain and the devastation my suicide attempt had on my family, I can hardly bear to think about the pain I would have caused if I had died. I'm beyond grateful that I lived. I fought hard to get well after I attempted suicide. I fought my way back to sobriety and stability with my mental health conditions over the next several years and into a life of recovery and beauty and blessings. Now I've tried to make a living amends to my family every day since. It's far from perfect, but I do my best.
Helen Sneed: Your best is pretty admirable. You know, I would give anything to skip this part. It's like walking down a path of broken glass when you've lost your shoes. I tried to kill myself more than once. Obviously, I didn't succeed. I had to live with the aftermath, which I viewed as failure of courage and resolve. Very few people ever knew I had a plan and the conviction to end my life. And afterward, when I was shocked to find myself alive, I didn't tell anyone but professionals and two close friends. I deliberately
Helen Sneed: kept myself apart from people because I was tired of faking it and I honestly felt that no one could help me. On the day of one of my suicide attempts, I stopped in the small park at the end of my block. There was a young mother playing with her tiny daughter. She would roll a small purple ball to the child who would run after it joyfully. Oddly enough, I was wearing a purple silk shirt that matched the ball. And when the ball rolled near me, I picked it up and rolled it back to the little girl. She clapped her hands and chased down the ball. A beautiful New York moment, but I took it to mean that I had just passed on my life to an innocent child who had a fresh chance at life, whereas mine was over.
Valerie Milburn: I'm so glad it wasn't over and that you and I have had the time together to share our lives and that we have so much time in front of us to share our lives.
Helen Sneed: Thank heaven.
Valerie Milburn: Yes. And I promised we would get to our recovery stories, and we're there. How did I overcome this? Well, getting sober was the turning point, but it was a slow shift out of that recurrent suicidal thinking. I had been putting numerous drugs and copious amounts of alcohol into my body for many years. And that's why it was such a slow transition into clearer thinking and more positive thinking, because research Shows that it can take up to a year to get certain drugs and that quantity of drugs and alcohol out of one's system. But because the drugs and alcohol were leaving my system, my psychiatric medication started working, and the depression began to lift. My thinking in general became clearer, and I was able to follow the suggestions of the people who supported me. I knew I couldn't think my way into right action. I had to act my way into right thinking. And I'll say that again. I couldn't think my way into right action. I had to act my way into right thinking. So I practiced mindfulness. Before I even knew what mindfulness was, I took the next right action. Whether it was, do the dishes, Go to my children's school or sporting events. Maybe it was call my sponsor or go to work, maybe even just pay my bills. I began to choose right over wrong. I even began exercising. I tried to live each moment, moment to moment, to the fullest. Most importantly, I developed a spiritual connection. And due to all this effort, and it was a heroic effort due to all of this, gradually, very gradually, my thinking became more positive. In the thoughts, suicide slipped away.
Helen Sneed: It really was a heroic effort that you were able to do this. So how did I rid myself of my constant companion? Abraham Lincoln said of his own depression, if there is a place worse than h***, I am in it. I suppose the turning point was when my doctor told me I'd never recover and never work again. Something in me snapped, and I vowed to prove her wrong. At the time, I had really begun to practice dialectical behavior therapy. That's dbt. It had taught me dozens of skills to overcome the cruel and punitive thoughts and feelings that had driven me all my life. I changed my treatment team to more optimistic therapists. And using the skills, I began to take opposite action. Rather than isolate, I let people back into my life. One of the friends who knew about my suicide attempts took me to lunch one day. He looked at me and said, if you kill yourself, I'll never get over it. For the first time, I was able to see the consequences my death would have on another person. I had honestly thought no one would really care. So I began to go through the motions of a healthy life. Diet and exercise, better sleep, and most importantly, consistent exposure to other people. I also began to capture a sense of purpose through work, writing, and volunteer work. And the pain began to loosen its grip. So I got my old self back, and I've gone places I never dreamed of. Somehow, and it took a long time, I began to realize I had found a cure for the unbearable suffering.
Helen Sneed: I was astonished to learn that living was the cure, not death. Life itself was the cure. It was there all the time. And life brings me joy and fulfillment to this very moment.
Valerie Milburn: You bring joy to others as well, Helen.
Helen Sneed: Oh, thanks.
Valerie Milburn: And we have shared our journeys now. And I know that sharing this journey with you, Helen, makes me feel as though I'm not alone. And I hope that we have conveyed that to others. And now we want to speak to those who are supporting someone they may be worried about and how do you know someone may be Thinking about suicide is the first thing we want to talk about because suicidal thinking is complicated and the signs are subtle. But there are signs to look for. Here are things. Here's a list from the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. If you're concerned about someone you think may be contemplating suicide, these are the signs to look for. If someone is talking about suicide, for example, making statements such as I'm going to kill myself or I wish I'd never been born or I'm just a burden, that's how I felt or I'm not going to be here anyway. Another sign is if someone is getting the means to take his or her own life, such as buying a gun or stockpiling pills or withdrawing from social contact and wanting to be left alone. Another sign of suicidal thinking is if someone is feeling trapped or hopeless about a situation or the increasing use of alcohol or drugs, changing a normal routine including eating and sleeping patterns, doing risky or self destructive things such as drugs or driving recklessly, giving away belongings or getting affairs in order when there's no other logical explanation for doing this, saying goodbye to people as if they won't be seen again, or developing personality changes or being severely anxious or agitated, particularly when experiencing some of the warning signs I've listed previously.
Helen Sneed: So what should you do if you think someone you know has thoughts of suicide? Now we have that. We have listed signs that someone may be contemplating suicide. What do you actually do if you think someone you know is indeed thinking about taking his or her own life? Well, there is a widely recognized five step plan for helping someone and we have taken it directly from the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline website. And we encourage everyone to go to this website because there are more details we are sort of summarizing here today. So here's step one. Ask. Ask the question. Are you thinking about suicide? Do not ever promise to keep their thoughts of suicide a secret. And the flip side of ask is listen. Help them focus on their reasons for living and avoid trying to impose your reasons for them to stay alive. Step 2 Be there. This could mean being physically present for someone, speaking with them on the phone when you can, or any other way that shows support for the person at risk. Step 3 Keep them safe after the Ask Step and when you've determined that suicide is indeed being talked about, it is important to find out a few things to establish immediate safety. Have they already done anything to try to kill themselves before talking with you? Do they have a specific detailed plan? What sort of access do they have to their planned method? Step 4 Help them connect Helping someone with thoughts of suicide connect with ongoing supports like the Lifeline can help them establish a safety net for those moments they find themselves in a crisis. Connecting with community mental health supports and resources. Step 5 follow up make sure to follow up to see how they're doing. Leave a message, send a text, give them a call. Really try to visit because the aftermath is extremely difficult for survivors and it can go on for weeks or months. And now, here are some excellent resources. If you're feeling overwhelmed by thoughts of not wanting to live or you're having urges to attempt suicide, get help now. Reach out and take action now. Call 911 or go to the nearest hospital emergency room immediately. Call
Helen Sneed: a suicide hotline in the U.S. call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255. That's 1-800-273-8 255. At any time of the day or night, there's 24 hours around the clock. You can press 1 to reach the Veterans Crisis line. You can text V R A v e at 741741. That's v r a v e at 741741. Or use their Liveline chat online. And there's another excellent resource that is based in Australia. It's called Square Suicide Questions, Answers and Resources. So here is their website address. It's www.squaresquare.org au.
Valerie Milburn:Thanks, Ellen, for that great list of resources. And speaking of resources, I think it's a great time to bring in Jenny. I already said that. Jenny Whitten is a licensed clinical social worker who has been in private practice for 25 years. Her practice focuses on women's issues, relationships, eating issues, and anxiety. Before going into private practice, Jenny worked at various nonprofits, including the center for Battered Women, now known as Safeplace, and at the YWCA and St. David's Eating Disorders Clinic. Jenny, you've been a patient listener and now we want to hear from you. We have some questions for you and Helen, why don't you jump right in with our first question, please?
Helen Sneed: Well, this is an overall question. What has been your professional experience with clients with suicidal ideation? I mean, I'm sure that in your long career you've treated people with this problem.
Speaker A: Yes, I have and thank you both once again. It's such an honor to be here. When I meet with a client for the first time, I always ask about suicidal ideation, either active or passive, whether they've had thoughts of wanting to die or active thoughts to take their own life. I believe it's so important for the therapeutic relationship to address suicidal ideation immediately and often. I've learned quite a bit through the years about the process in my practice. At first I believed I had the power to change clients minds about feeling suicidal or acting on suicidal thoughts if only I could say or do the right thing. I now believe that only the client has the power to change his or her mind and that my role is to try to provide support, listen with compassion, and continue to directly ask if the clients are thinking about hurting themselves. I continue asking that question in every single session until and if the clients state with conviction that they're no longer suicidal. On a personal level, I've had two clients complete suicide while working with me. Both instances brought great grief and sadness to me
Speaker A: and I will never forget those fine folks. What I do believe I'm sorry, no, go ahead. What I do believe with all my heart is that anyone who takes his or her own life completely believes there is no other alternative at that moment and not disagree with those who believe anyone commits this act for attention, to punish others, or to abandon their children.
Helen Sneed: Well, I couldn't agree with you more because for me, people say, oh, it's an act of revenge or something like that. I only wanted to end the pain. I had no, no thoughts of anything else. And I'm like you, I resent it when people begin to be pejorative about something that's so utterly serious. What do you recommend people look for if they're concerned someone is contemplating suicide? We've sort of talked about it, but you're the expert.
Speaker A: Well, you mentioned so many things that are so important. I think maybe something that I've learned through the years that is a little bit counterintuitive is if family members or loved ones are noticing that the person who's been contemplating suicide becomes very calm and content. It's very strange, but statistics show that this particular behavior change is most present in the experience of loved ones of those who have completed suicide. Along with the sense of calm, you all have mentioned most of the other important indicators, the saying goodbyes. If you happen to notice that someone is writing and keeps that writing secret, that can be a tip. Getting affairs in order. One of the interesting red flags to just look out for is if they start seeking legal advice, Trying to get their affairs legally in order is another red flag. And then Valerie mentioned, of course, the loss of interest in appearance. And one of the first things is just the loss of interest in cleanliness.
Valerie Milburn: Right. That was definitely a sign for me. And, you know, I hadn't thought about the sense of calm, but looking back on it, I had a sense of resignation, which I guess could have been seen as a sense of being calm. I had just made the decision that I was such a burden. It was absolutely the right thing to do. And I do believe I was resigned. And that could have looked like calm. And I've never thought of that before.
Helen Sneed: Yeah, I. I was, in a way, because the. Again, I was beyond help and I was beyond anyone, you know, interfering in my. In my plan. And so that made me just feel very, you know, sort of. This sounds so awful, but kind of grounded. You know, I was ready and this was the only thing left for me to do.
Speaker A: It's an interesting thing to watch for if someone you love is contemplating suicide. I think Valerie also mentioned an uptake in drug or alcohol use.
Valerie Milburn: Yes.
Speaker A: And then I usually suggest that family members continue asking, are you planning to hurt yourself?
Valerie Milburn: Yes, ask the question. It's definitely, definitely an important thing to point out because I know that it's a myth that if you ask the question, you'll plant a seed and that it is truly important to ask that difficult question. Even if you think it might make someone angry? I think. I mean, not. I think I am certain I would rather have a friend who's angry than gone.
Helen Sneed: Yes, oh, definitely. Definitely.
Helen Sneed: Well, you made these interesting points, Jenny, about. You make it sound as if from with you working with people, with your clients, that the whole suicidal ideation is really individual unto the person. Is that accurate? That each person kind of has their own way of approaching it and thinking about it. I know there's some similarities, but. But you seem to make it sound as if you know each time you do, you have to kind of alter a little bit. How do you work with the person?
Speaker A: Absolutely. I mean, just like we are all unique. We're all unique in our methods and I think there are all kinds of different thoughts that people may have who are contemplating suicide. And who are we to know? All we can do is ask and continue asking.
Helen Sneed: Yeah, I guess one of the things I'm so eager to hear from you is what have you found to be beneficial for those who are struggling with suicidal ideation? Are there certain methods that you use that are beneficial for your clients? Or again, does it just vary a lot?
Speaker A: Well, it varies some, but in my view, a lot of things that help are actually very simple. It's that connection, human to human. So in session with clients, it's just so important to ask them about their feelings around suicide and everything else and to bring it up every session. And I kind of push a little bit, asking them to articulate the emotions they're feeling. And I see my role as trying to offer compassion, understanding and support, no matter what their feelings are. One thing I have learned through the years is that arguing is not helpful on a practical level. I do try to make sure that anyone who's who I know is contemplating suicide does have access to the 24 hour hotline. And I will often give them my cell number in case of emergency to just have someone in particular to call. And a lot of therapists would not concur with that idea. That's just something I do. Another thing that we haven't talked about yet that I have really found happens quite a bit is that a lot of clients like to keep kind of an escape hatch. And what I mean by that is kind of keeping something on the back burner and needing to say, well, you know what? I want to keep the idea that I might want to have suicide as an option. I might want to just keep that in my pocket. I used to find that so confusing, but I really think it Helps some people have a sense of control. I mean, everything else is out of control, their lives, their feelings. And so I have learned to understand that in a sense, I do in those situations. I often do ask clients to consider developing a plan for safety, and that might include just identifying the warning signs to themselves, making a list of alternate activities to engage in when they're feeling suicidal to actually have a list there, also having a list of people to connect with, a list of people they can call. And finally, if they're willing, I ask them to make an agreement with me that they'll contact me if they ever feel they're going to act on their suicidal thoughts.
Helen Sneed: That is invaluable, what you just did, to make it. To make a checklist like that, a safety list.
Valerie Milburn: It really is.
Helen Sneed: That's because I wish I'd had one.
Valerie Milburn: Wonderful. That's a. That's a great list. A great plan for people who have suicidal ideation, habitual suicidal thoughts. I wish I had had that plan. That's great. Thank you so much, Jenny, for sharing that.
Helen Sneed: When you have clients that are struggling with suicidal ideation that give you permission to communicate with their family members, because that's the only way you can.
Speaker A: Yes.
Helen Sneed: What have you found that helps those family members to come to terms with it or to deal with it or just whatever. It must be so distressing. Well, I guess you get all responses, you know.
Speaker A: Yes, of course, depending on the family system. But I do always suggest that family members and loved ones do their best to stay out of judgment, and that includes getting really angry with the person who's experiencing suicidal ideation. I usually suggest that they continue frank discussions about suicide with their loved ones rather than kind of skirting around the issue, naming the issue. If they're able to go and see that person in person, even if the person says not today, I just suggest they stay persistent. I just believe that that can help so much with the social isolation and also the sense of shame. Kind of like what you were talking about, Helen, the idea that no one really wants to help you. How could they? That it seems, and I've seen it work with loved ones who just are persistent, you know, I think we all really appreciate a hand being reached out in the darkness.
Helen Sneed: Yes.
Speaker A: Also, oddly enough, planning a trip with someone or planning an event like a concert or a play or even going out to dinner, that can give somebody something to look forward to and a sense of purpose, at least for a little while. Also, probably the most important thing is friends and loved ones sharing with the Person who is thinking about suicide, sharing their own feelings of sadness and doubt and their own journeys into darkness. I have found that. And a lot of families have found that to be the most helpful thing of all.
Helen Sneed: Is that the finding that the common ground somehow, and that we're.
Speaker A: All hurting or that we all have hurt in the past and that in that way, that this person doesn't have to feel different, that this person can feel. Oh, okay. They've experienced that too.
Helen Sneed: So there's. Yeah, so there's a connection that hadn't been made before, I guess. That's wonderful.
Valerie Milburn: And that's how I got through preparing for this episode, was calling Helen, saying, hey, having a hard time here. And we talked about our common journey and, you know, held on to each other's. Held on to each other through the phone, you know.
Helen Sneed: Exactly, exactly.
Valerie Milburn: Knowing that I wasn't alone and knowing that others have struggled. And that's absolutely something. That is a connection we do need to make. Jenny, you really. That we have all struggled and we've all gone to darkness in one way or another in different levels, you know, and when I was in the trauma hospital, I was told, trauma is. Trauma is trauma. It doesn't have to be huge. Everybody's pain is valid, whether it's at your level or whatever. Everyone's pain is valid in their own right. And that really is something we need to hang on to.
Speaker A: Yes. Pain is pain. It's not.
Helen Sneed: It's not a contest.
Speaker A: Right. We all have it, I think.
Helen Sneed: Yeah. Jenny,
Helen Sneed: I've mentioned the aftermath and how difficult that is for so many survivors. You know, it's just. It's so hard, you know, you just go, wait a minute. Wait, I'm still alive. What happened? Or you're sad or remorseful or ashamed or cast out from your family because they can't handle it. Whatever. What have you found healing for your clients when they have survived a suicide attempt?
Speaker A: I'm so glad that you asked this. And I just think it's so important because those who have survived a suicide attempt, as you both know, often need significant support afterwards. I mean, so many feelings can come up and you all have mentioned them all feelings of relief for some. Sadness, anger, regret, shame, almost universally. Right. And. And hopefulness. And those are just a few feelings. Some people, I think, feel even more depressed, and they talk about feeling like a failure for having survived. And again, I think it's just so important to sit and listen to what folks are feeling. I also think it's really helpful for people if they're willing to join a support group for survivors?
Helen Sneed: Absolutely.
Speaker A: Again, understanding that there are other people who've experienced this, and in those groups, the ones that I'm aware of, they're very, very strict boundaries around listening with empathy and without judgment, inviting them to explore all the feelings they have and again, to validate those feelings, whatever they are. The social connection. The social connection that we're human and that we touch each other and that we see each other, I think can be very healing.
Helen Sneed: Yeah, that's. That you kind of just said it all in those sentences, I think. Yeah, I. What, what, what have we missed in terms of things that you have been thinking about while we were talking endlessly? Or, or questions that we missed, Whatever. Because it's. It's such a multifaceted and, you know, it's a life or death subject. You know, it is. The. The pressure really is great. So if you can think of anything else, please tell us now.
Speaker A: Well, I've had quite a few clients want to discontinue therapy with me right after a suicide attempt. And I really try to ask them to hang in there with therapy. And also a lot of people are real uncomfortable after maybe attending the first support group. It's just kind of overwhelming. So. But I will, you know, I will see people late at night or early in the morning or three. I'll do just about anything to keep them in therapy for a while so that our relationship can be repaired. Because I think when someone, well, normally wants to quit therapy, you know, of course it could be mistakes I made, but right after a suicide attempt, I just think there's a lot of shame there. And I've had a lot of my clients tell me, well, aren't you ashamed of me? Well, goodness, no. I'm just like you, and I'm. I'm there to listen and can we. Can we keep walking together? So I have found myself really work hard on that one. But it's, It's. It's really. I think it's helped me a lot to stay in connection with them, and I do believe it's helped them to stay in connection and work through the shame they might feel.
Valerie Milburn: Thank you, Jenny,
Valerie Milburn: that you have brought so much to this discussion and that social connection you talked about, the overcoming the shame and the fact that you work so hard to keep someone in therapy and all the things you talked about, your compassion. You're an amazing therapist. I can tell that from here. And I know that because I know what an incredible person you are. And thank you for coming on with us today and for all you've shared and all you've done for me and my family and your clients and I just.
Helen Sneed: And me. And me.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Helen Sneed: I just learned a whole lot.
Valerie Milburn: Yeah, I know. I've been watching Helen.
Helen Sneed: This was brilliant. I just really needed to hear from you today.
Valerie Milburn: Thank you. I've been watching Helen nod and smile and just really, we're both just really grateful. I can see it in Helen's face and I feel it in my heart. And just thank you so much. And Helen, you wanted to do a quick run through of the resources because they're so important.
Helen Sneed: Yes, we. I'm just gonna run through it again just because we want to be sure everybody's got the information first of all. 911 or the closest hospital emergency room, the National Suicide prevention lifeline. That's 800-273-825-5800, 2738255. Press 1 to reach the Veterans Crisis line. There's Lifeline chat online or you can text them at B R A v e at 741-741. And our other resource is Square, that's www.square.org au. We've kind of wondered how we would begin to even try to wrap up this topic today. And there's a Martha Graham, the dancer and choreographer, was one of America's greatest artists. She was. And I want to share something that she said. There is a vitality, a life force, an energy, a quickening that is translated through you into action. And because there is only one of you in all time, this expression is unique. And if you block will never exist through any other medium and will be lost. The world will not have it. So our greatest hope is that anyone listening with suicidal ideation or urges will be heartened and somewhat comforted by our presentation. Today, there is only one of you in all time. There is a fine place for you in the world. So please stay here and find out what joy and fulfillment can be yours. And now, Valerie, please lead us through a mindfulness exercise. We need it.
Valerie Milburn: I will do that. We always end with the mindfulness exercise. Before I begin today's, I want to check in about last episode's exercise. I challenged those listening to choose a daily action and create a new pattern. The pattern was called is called if then, then that. And if you were listening last episode, I promised I would do this check in. So how are you doing with your new pattern? Congratulations on improving your mindfulness or this is your encouragement to give it another go. If you're listening now and you have no idea what I'm talking about. Then please listen to episode seven and join us. Helen and Jenny, are you ready for today's mindfulness exercise? Yes, I think we need one after today's topic and I've chosen an appropriate one. I always begin these exercises with the definition what is mindfulness? It's a mental state achieved by focusing one's awareness on the present moment while calmly acknowledging and accepting one's feelings, thoughts and bodily sensations. Today's mindful exercise is adapted from mindfulnessexercises.com and it's called Emotional Awareness and Acceptance. When difficult emotions rise to the surface, we often struggle to accept them. But part of the freedom that arises from mindfulness comes when we learn to accept whatever emotion exists, good or bad. But instead of judging our emotions as good or bad, we can simply label them. We can note the emotions that are arising by
Valerie Milburn: simply labeling them. In a minute we're going to do just that. We're going to look inward and non judgmentally label what we are feeling. I don't know about you, but sometimes I have difficulty putting a name on the emotion I'm feeling. So to help us, here are a few common. Anger. Happiness. Grief. Surprise. Irritation. Love. Shame. Gratitude. Fear. So let's give it a go. Here we go. Take a deep breath. A diaphragmatic breath. If you know that process, let it out. Another slow deep breath to the count of five. Breathe in. One, two, three, four, five. Then release your breath to the count of seven. One, two, three, Four, five, six, seven. Begin. Breathe into the count of five. One, two, three, 4, 5. Breathe out to the count of seven. One thousand two, three, four, five, six, seven. Now look inward. Label the emotion you are feeling now or have been dealing with lately, or have been struggling with for a while. Don't judge it, just label it. Draw your attention to your heart space. Opening yourself up compassionately and non judgmentally to whatever your experience is. Mindfully ease any judgment that arises and simply allow yourself to be right where you are without attaching to the energy that is there. Feel only compassion. Breathe in. Breathe out. That's it. Thank you for joining me in today's mindfulness exercise.
Helen Sneed: Oh, thank you, Valerie. That was. That was much needed.
Speaker A: Yes, indeed.
Helen Sneed: Yeah. So now we must bring this episode to a close. As you may recall, our first objective was to save even one life. We pray that we have succeeded. After our intense past two episodes, we're going to focus our next one on a bright and challenging topic. Goals and goal setting. Even in the most difficult times it's possible to pursue and achieve the goal of your dreams. So please join us as we share the skills and methods we've learned along the way.
Valerie Milburn: I want to thank our listeners. As always, we are honored that you have taken time to be with us. And again, thank you, Jenny.
Speaker A: Thank you so much.
Helen Sneed: And now I leave everyone with the best word there is. Onward.